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Last Post Feb 12, 2009 7:22 AM by: woodland_gnome
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eliang@ebay.com
Posts: 163

Bid History Changes including a***b userIDs

Sep 6, 2007 8:33 AM
Bid History Update AB post
Hello...I'm Evan Liang with eBay's Buyer Experience team. My team and I focus on improving the experience members have when they place a bid or make a purchase. As Philipp mentioned, we're making a few important changes to the bid history page that we think will improve the overall bidding experience. You will begin to see these changes next week.

Making winning easier – bid right from the bid history page
We know from talking to Community members that many people spend a lot of time monitoring competitive auctions from the bid history page. Knowing how important this page is to bidders, my team has enhanced the user interface so you can now place a bid directly on the bid history page.

For our competitive bidders who use the bid history often, we think this change will simplify your experience and help you win that "must have" item.

Enhancing SMI -- adding transparency for items over $200

Last January, Rob Chesnut introduced an important Trust & Safety initiative called Safeguarding Member IDs (SMI). This project protects eBay's bidders on high-end items from fake Second Chance Offers and other malicious email. (Read Rob's announcement from January 8, 2007 for more details.)

While SMI has been very effective in protecting our marketplace from fraud, we also realize that it reduced transparency on the site, and, for some bidders, took away some of the magic that makes eBay so unique.

As promised, my Buyer Experience group has teamed up with Trust & Safety and the Community over the past few months to look at ways to make the bid history more transparent without jeopardizing the safety that SMI has added. I'm pleased to let you know that this week, we'll be making the following adjustments to the User IDs displayed on bid history for items over $200:

Actual Feedback Score is back – We will be bringing back the bidder’s actual feedback score next to each member's respective User ID.
New User ID Masking - We are replacing the current aliases (Bidder 1, Bidder 2 and Bidder 3) with a masked ID that consists of two random characters from the member's User ID – for example a***b. For any given member, this masked ID will be consistent across all auctions over $200 for which they place bids. At the end of a listing, the winning bidder's User ID will be displayed on both the item and bid history page. Please note: Sellers will still be able to view the actual User IDs for bidders on their listings through the Bid History page.
Also, please understand that to protect our Community, eBay reserves the right to change this masking algorithm in the future, but will only do so if absolutely necessary and with advance notice. We expect to add more enhancements in the future, although our intent is to move cautiously so we can ensure we’re preserving safety.

For more information read the following workshop discussion:
Link

As always, we appreciate your support and feedback, and look forward to further improvements to your buyer experience.

Sincerely,

Evan Liang
Buyer Experience
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square*dance*girl
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Bid History Changes including a***b userIDs

Sep 10, 2007 3:25 PM
For me, nothing but full transparency is acceptable. Many people won't bid at all over $200, so eBay is shooting itself in the foot when they won't let us see whom we are bidding against.

However, "For any given member, this masked ID will be consistent across all auctions over $200 for which they place bids." That's better than nothing; not much better, though.

My question would be if you can search on that anonymous ID and find those other bids?



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monster_goose
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Bid History Changes including a***b userIDs

Sep 10, 2007 3:30 PM
SDG,

You can't perform a Serach by Bidder using the masked user ID.

Monster_Goose
Oh my, this is goin' to hurt.

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monster_goose
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Bid History Changes including a***b userIDs

Sep 10, 2007 3:31 PM
You can't perform a Search by Bidder using the masked user ID either.

Monster_Goose
Oh my, this is goin' to hurt.

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square*dance*girl
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Bid History Changes including a***b userIDs

Sep 10, 2007 4:06 PM
Thanks, {{{MG}}}



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bidders_identity_protected
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Bid History Changes including a***b userIDs

Sep 10, 2007 5:06 PM
If we are ever going to have any transparency returned, eBay will have to implement real security, effective user validation, and secure and monitor the API traffic and messages between users. Unfortunately eBay will probably have to continue and even expand the use of "anonymized" bidder IDs for ALL auctions in order to break the link that has been established and enabled by the irresponsible release of bidder personal email information to sellers and scammers via inadequate security and the eBay API.

If they can do the job of securing the site, even if user id's are "anonymized", they could return the search by bidder tools and transparency where you could click on the "anonymized" bidder ID and see all of his past and current activity.

I don't really need to know someone's real eBay ID if I can still see his bidding activity. I don't know or need to know Tiptie (795) from t***i (795) but if I can easily search for what t**i (795) is or has been bidding on and know that eBay has at least made a cursory attempt to validate the user IDs to link a real person to the ID, I can feel much more comfortable that he is actually a real bidder.
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monster_goose
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Bid History Changes including a***b userIDs

Sep 10, 2007 6:02 PM
The problem that I see, bidders_identity_protected, is that a scammer could, theoretically, jump through all of the hoops through the “front door” to become a user blended in with the rest of the “community”. What the scammer does once he gets through the front door is another matter altogether. My thinking goes along the lines of eBay not being able to guarantee that the terms of a contract will be fulfilled by either party to it whether the party is the seller or the buyer.

How does one guarantee or provide assurance that any member or registered user is going to behave according to the accepted standards of the “community”? It’s sort of like any potential seller can click “I agree” and then disregard the User Agreement with respect to the listing polices prohibiting restricted or counterfeit items.

I really believe it is up to the users themselves to protect themselves from being scammed and SMI version 1.0 or the new SMI isn’t the answer, IMO. These measures just mess up the users that know what’s going on and it hampers their abilities to do research to protect their own interests. SMI is there to protect eBay’s interests; not the buyers’ interests.

I’m off to do my RL w*rk and may respond tomorrow to anything else that’s posted.

Monster_Goose
Oh my, this is goin' to hurt.

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bidders_identity_protected
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Bid History Changes including a***b userIDs

Sep 10, 2007 8:24 PM
Certainly scammers and criminals could jump through the hoops, get verified and blend in to the community to gain access to the same information that honest eBayers have. However with an effective verification mechanism, most scammers will not be able to qualify and many who don't want to be verified and held responsible for their activities will drop out. And of course there will always be issues with hijacked accounts. All issues can be addressed and effective changes made but I doubt that eBay is willing to do what is necessary to really protect it's users.

With true verification of user identities and internally linking user's multiple accounts to the real person who can be held responsible for his activities, eBay could begin to regain control of the site from the scammers. They could throw out scamming users who demonstrate that will not follow to the user agreement and in cases of blatant fraud, eBay could also forward evidence to the appropriate authorities for prosecution.

Using secure login combined with cookies, IP and ISP tracking and perhaps a security device / dongle could be employed to verify that the user logging in is really who he purports to be. To reduce hijacked accounts while allowing users to be able to access their account from other ISP or IP addresses, when login is detected from a different ISP or IP, a series of security questions could be used to verify user identity.

While nothing will ever eliminate shill bidding, with secure login, positively identifying users and internally linking all IDs to a real person would allow eBay to more effectively prevent and detect the really stupid shill bidders. With a return to transparency we could again see suspicious patterns to report the ones shilling using multiple people and IDs. IMO, anyone caught shilling should be permanently removed from the site and prosecuted.

Secure login and positively identifying the listing party combined with scanning all new listings for illegal links and malicious code could prevent many of the fraudulent listings from ever going live.

Securing all pages to prevent scraping and parsing of identity information and monitoring and tracking API access could stop much of the illegal access and data mining being done to gather information to initiate fraud.

Tracking and monitoring all communication between members and eliminating public email as a means for doing business here would eliminate much of the fraudulent emails that target ignorant users for off site transactions and phishing. That would require an efficient and secure messaging system be developed and implemented to bring all communication on site. Make it known that ANY email to your off site email address is fraudulent.

Even if eBay were to implement these draconian changes, I seriously doubt that eBay will ever be able to roll back SMI to return to showing real eBay IDs as in the good old days. With the past careless handling of our eBay IDs and the linked email addresses and the resulting public lists of those links it will likely require even expanding "anonymized" IDS to every auction across the site.

To return transparency and still break the link to user IDs and email addresses, a separate "public" ID may need to be assigned to each user to allow a return of full search by bidder. At that point eBay should NEVER give out eBay IDs or email addresses to ANYONE, not even sellers. There should be no need for anyone to have that information so no one could make the link to send out targeted fake SCOs and we could have a return to transparency.

I expect much resistance to user verification from eBay and many users. EBay certainly doesn't want to reduce the super inflated user counts that it uses to boost share prices and management bonuses. I'm also sure that if they implement real security measures that many fear that they might lose their precious "its only a venue" defense.
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tiptie
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Bid History Changes including a***b userIDs

Sep 11, 2007 7:40 AM
bidders_identity_protected..................The pressure on eBay needs to continue.

We have got eBay to blink. Evan was here to tell us about the "blink".

eBay either needs to create the Public ID as we mentioned almost a year ago or....................make the verification process very intense.

If the user had a very high verification level and he allowed eBay to monitor his activities then he would be given a special clearance ability to see all users ID's.

Will eBay do either of these things?

I would say "maybe".

The pressure needs to continue.



_____________________________

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_____________________________

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Click Here To Go To The Sniper School
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*-reno-*
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Bid History Changes including a***b userIDs

Sep 11, 2007 8:24 AM

We shall persevere.

Thanks tiptie...





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bidders_identity_protected
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Bid History Changes including a***b userIDs

Sep 11, 2007 8:52 AM
I'm all for continuing the pressure and am willing to help in any way possible. I consider Evan's willingness to explore better solutions and return some transparency a very positive step. I do understand the very real threats and fraud that eBay has attempted to address with SMI.

I also understand that a Band-Aid solution like SMI is not the long term solution. I only hope that eBay understands this as well. While it might provide a temporary reduction in fake SCOs, it doesn't address the root cause of the fraud and it erodes user confidence by removing the very transparency that fosters trust for legitimate users.

It is the naive and haphazard way that eBay has conducted business, the inadequate security and policing of the site and its failure to protect sensitive user information that has caused much of the rampant fraud that happens on the site and incidental to the site via fraudulent email offers and phishing activities.

Fixing those issues is going to be painful, difficult and expensive to implement and will likely be met with much resistance both within eBay and from many users.

What I suggest is a big change in how eBay conducts business and will not happen overnight but IMO, it is prudent and standard security practices for a business site of this magnitude on the internet if they want to protect their users from fraud.

Gone are the days (if there ever was a day) when it is safe to do business over the internet via public email with complete internal anonymity and no accountability. Though it has been very successful up to now, with 20/20 hindsight it is certainly easy to see that this business model was naive and has caused much of the fraud that plagues eBay today.
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bidders_identity_protected
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Bid History Changes including a***b userIDs

Sep 11, 2007 9:04 AM
Actually I think the word "caused" is not the correct word.

this business model was naive and has caused enabled much of the fraud that plagues eBay today.

Surely knowing that these issues enable much of the fraud on their unsuspecting users, eBay will diligently work to correct these security issues to really protect their users and not be complicit in the fraud.
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square*dance*girl
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Bid History Changes including a***b userIDs

Sep 11, 2007 12:24 PM
Except in cases of identity theft:

If eBay required a credit card for any account and used the AVS verification, nobody could get through without their address being confirmed as the billing address for their credit card. While it would not be effective in the case of stolen credit card numbers, the user could be required to give the three-digit number from the back of the card for verification that they have the card in hand.

This still wouldn't stop the identity theft people, but I think it would cut down tremendously on the fake accounts.

If eBay would go further and mail a login key device to the address given and require it be used rather than just a regular login, that would also help a lot. Thieves could not log in if they gave the address of the owner of the credit card to get verified at registration, and credit card owners would be alerted to the fact that someone is using their information.

I'm going to copy/paste this to Tiptie's thread.



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baseballboi
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Bid History Changes including a***b userIDs

Sep 12, 2007 5:26 AM
Wayy back in 1999 when I first started selling my baseball cards on ebay. I had to use my dad's credit card to open an account. Why don't they require that anymore?

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bidders_identity_protected
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Bid History Changes including a***b userIDs

Sep 12, 2007 8:21 AM
To start selling they do still require a credit card but that seems to be only to have a way to charge their fees. It is way too easy to create accounts with false information and credit cards and set up shop to defraud users. Since you used your dad's credit card, I suspect that you could have also used a stolen one and they don't validate it to be a person who can be held responsible for his activities on the site. Once you have set up your seller account, eBay does not validate when you log in that you are who you say you are.

If a scammer creates a fake account or if he gets your eBay ID and password, he can hijack your account or simply log in to his fake account to post thousands of fraudulent auctions filled with phishing links and malicious code. EBay doesn't validate that the login came from East Slobovia instead of your valid home IP (which should be a big red flag) and seems to just posts listings without even a cursory scanning for fraudulent links and code.
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beeblebroxforpresident
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Bid History Changes including a***b userIDs

Sep 12, 2007 4:10 PM
If eBay would go further and mail a login key device to the address given and require it be used rather than just a regular login, that would also help a lot.

Never gonna happen nor should it. eBay already has the security key available but if they make it mandatory their business would plummet. It's just too big an inconvenience having to have the key fob with you every time you want to use eBay. It also would mean you would have to wait a few days before you could start using eBay. And the cost of sending the key fob to every one of the millions of users would be extreme. And of course all of the sniping services would go out of business though I think eBay would count that as a plus.
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