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DR FRANKLIN REBUS INFORMATION

(1 of 10)
DR FRANKLIN REBUS INFORMATION
Sep 8, 2012 07:39 PM

Hello,

 

trying to figure out what I have here and any help would be appreciated.

 

This was bought with 1920s sheet music it was in a frame

and the only one that I felt came close to resembling it after I looked at reprints was this one
http://www.baumanrarebooks.com/rare-books/franklin-benjamin/poor-richard-improved/66446.aspx

 

I contacted Bauman rare books and they told me they are not interested in buying another at this time and referred me to other dealers aaba I believe.. i asked them the million dollar question .. "its not trash then"?

 

Reply was we do not verify or give appraisals but in the e-mail we referred you to other dealers.. which led me to believe that mahybe it was real.. why the charade?

 

I do not think its 1830s but I have a decent amount of 1890s ephemera and it does to my eyes anyway and others who have some knowledge in antiques to be "something' rather old.

 

The page if you look at it closely appears to have writing inside like the previous page bled through some.

 

Any help or opinions Id appreciate on this item.

 

The size of the document is very close to Baumans.

 

Thank you.

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DR FRANKLIN REBUS INFORMATION

(9 Replies / 313 Views)
DR FRANKLIN REBUS INFORMATION
Sep 8, 2012 07:39 PM
2 Attachments

Hello,

 

trying to figure out what I have here and any help would be appreciated.

 

This was bought with 1920s sheet music it was in a frame

and the only one that I felt came close to resembling it after I looked at reprints was this one
http://www.baumanrarebooks.com/rare-books/franklin-benjamin/poor-richard-improved/66446.aspx

 

I contacted Bauman rare books and they told me they are not interested in buying another at this time and referred me to other dealers aaba I believe.. i asked them the million dollar question .. "its not trash then"?

 

Reply was we do not verify or give appraisals but in the e-mail we referred you to other dealers.. which led me to believe that mahybe it was real.. why the charade?

 

I do not think its 1830s but I have a decent amount of 1890s ephemera and it does to my eyes anyway and others who have some knowledge in antiques to be "something' rather old.

 

The page if you look at it closely appears to have writing inside like the previous page bled through some.

 

Any help or opinions Id appreciate on this item.

 

The size of the document is very close to Baumans.

 

Thank you.

Last Post
by hollowayd (1678 ) View Listings
(1 of 9)
Re: DR FRANKLIN REBUS INFORMATION
Sep 8, 2012 07:52 PM

It's not at all unusual for a top rated firm to refuse to appraise unless having the item in hand;

 

pretty much par for the course.

 

They've got one, they think it's valuable or they wouldn't have it, and it hasn't sold quickly for what they think it's worth or they'd be interested in buying another.

 

That means it doesn't have an active market, but it does not mean there is not a market.

 

They don't know you from Adam but they suggested several people whom they respect as possible resources.

 

You have something.

 

What, I've no idea. I'm not an appraiser, I don't sell sheet music, and I've not even looked at your pictures.

 

But you have something, based on your story.

 

Maybe somebody here knows about the sheet music market enough to help out further. I sell a lot of hymnals, but that's only a tangential relationship to what you've got.


Life begins at the end of your comfort Zone.

(2 of 9)
Re: DR FRANKLIN REBUS INFORMATION
Sep 8, 2012 09:18 PM

We would need a good clear picture of the title page and the back of the title page at least to start. We also need the title as it is printed on the title page, author's name as printed on the title page and all publisher information as it appears on both the title page and the back of the title page.

 

"...size of the document is very close to Baumans."

 

"Close" probably isn't good enough.

 

I'm certainly not an expert, but my first reaction on seeing your photos so far, is that it may be a nice, but comparatively recent reprint or facsimile edition.

 

As has been said by many wiser and much more experienced book-people before me - "I'd love to be wrong."

 

Pictures of the title page will defintely help.

(3 of 9)
Re: DR FRANKLIN REBUS INFORMATION
Sep 8, 2012 10:37 PM

We would need a good clear picture of the title page and the back of the title page at least to start. We also need the title as it is printed on the title page, author's name as printed on the title page and all publisher information as it appears on both the title page and the back of the title page.

 

 

Elyn, it's not a book ... it's an illustrated broadside. 

 

I believe the OP is inquiring if his is a real or facsimile copy ... which is almost impossible to say without being able to closely examine the paper for signs of appropriate age.

 

Also, the fact that the OP's document is "very close" to Baumanns' copy is a red flag.  Very often, facsimiles are a different size than an original printing, so, assuming the Baumann copy is genuine, I would question the veracity of a document which did not share the exact measurement of theirs.

 

 

(4 of 9)
Re: DR FRANKLIN REBUS INFORMATION
Sep 8, 2012 10:58 PM

I think my question is  of Baumans is circa 1830 is this 1880 1910 1950.. I need someone who is familar with the rebus.. I believe that it could be the same size as thiers im just unsure and I guess I need to take it physically to someone who can look at the document and give me an opinion of the age of it.

 

When you watch Pawnstars they make it look so easy to authenticate things =)

 


(5 of 9)
Re: DR FRANKLIN REBUS INFORMATION
Sep 9, 2012 05:02 AM

Yeah, but Pawn Stars is about half a mile from Baumann's.

 

Makes a little difference: they are in a destination marketplace accustomed to big dollar collectors.

 

For them, they pick up a phone and an expert is there. Magic of film makes it happen in seconds.

 

And of course, having a filming budget that pays for the appraiser's time doesn't hurt. In "real life" I'm sure they pay for their appraisers' time and/or have them on retainer.

 

Physical examination is important. If you check these threads, over the years many have sent an item to a place such as Baumann's for examination. It's an expense, but if the answer is positive, it's a risk well rewarded.

 

Perhaps you can learn something of dating paper from your local library--keep your eyes peeled for a paper and/or book fair near you.

 

Whatever it is you have, it will keep if cared for. And if it is "something" will only increase in value over the time it takes to prove it.


Life begins at the end of your comfort Zone.

(6 of 9)
Re: DR FRANKLIN REBUS INFORMATION
Sep 9, 2012 07:17 AM

.

 

From 1791 onward, Franklin's most amusing little word puzzle has been reprinted countless times.  In some cases the printers added their imprint at the bottom of the text (such as the 1817 Fur Hat version of Peter Maverick at New York); in this case, the printer's name seems to appear inside the lower circle of the vignette of Franklin, in the same fashion of the Gleason printing of the 1850s.  The "Desk Vignette" seen here was popular at the middle of the nineteenth century.  Ascertaining the printer's name (you'll need a high power jeweler's loupe) and then comparing your with identified editions:

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=franklin+art+of+making+money+rebus&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=np&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=TqRMUMbIGYbi0QGGnIDICw&biw=893&bih=510&sei=UKRMUOmwKeaJ0QHDv4GgDg

 

should eventually nail down the origin and approximate date.  An example of the Gleason edition mentioned above sold recently for $60.00.

 

.

(7 of 9)
Re: DR FRANKLIN REBUS INFORMATION
Sep 9, 2012 09:21 AM


Elyn, it's not a book ... it's an illustrated broadside.

 

You are absolutely right. Combination of tiny screen and tired me meant a stupid response to OP. My apologies.

 

With a much larger screen it is easier to see.

 

On a side note, Pawnstars et al and other television programming of that sort are simply carefully scripted and edited stories that are told - and sold - for the purposes of the storyteller's profit and your entertainment and have no relation to alleged reality.

 

 

 

(8 of 9)
Re: DR FRANKLIN REBUS INFORMATION
Sep 9, 2012 09:35 AM

The letter from Bauman that made me think I had something better then average... Its been an interesting journey anyways if it turns out to be a $20 item.

 

Thank you very much for sending us the photographs of your Ben Franklin rebus broadside. Unfortunately, we’ve decided the item doesn’t suit our current needs, so we would not be interested in purchasing it.

 

I regret any disappointment this decision may cause, but would encourage you, if you haven’t already, to consult the website of the Antiquarian Booksellers’ Association of America at www.abaa.org, where you might learn more about your document, including other reputable dealers who may wish to purchase it. Any dealer who belongs to the ABAA, as we do, has an established track record in the field, subscribes to a code of professional conduct and can be trusted to treat you fairly.

 

Again, many thanks for your inquiry, and best wishes.

 

Sincerely,

 

Mike Poteet

 

 

 

(9 of 9)
Re: DR FRANKLIN REBUS INFORMATION
Sep 9, 2012 10:45 AM

I think the Bauman response is a canned response-- use the same closing and add a new first paragraph for anything they don't want to sell.  Shouldn't be taken as meaning they think it has value.

 

Just my 2 cents.

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