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Meanwhile in America...

(1 of 50)
Meanwhile in America...
Jun 13, 2012 06:31 AM

.

 

In the fifties, there was some serious debate about Parents teaching their children cursive before entering their first school year.  Primary school educators of the era held that printing should be taught first, to give youngsters a grasp of letter formation, and cursive wasn't taught until students' second year in primary schools.

 

The morning news' lead story claims that students are no longer taught cursive handwiting in either primary or secondary courses in more than 50% of America's schools -

 

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22can%27t%20write%20cursive%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np

 

- and further claims that students are scoring poorly or failing college courses owed to the inability to take the necessary study notes.  Does anyone in the academic community ever consider the repurcussions of such sweeping changes these days, or have these students simply been condemned to mediocrity by the system through no fault of their own?

 

"An average American English speaker engaged in a friendly conversation speaks at a rate of approximately 110 – 150 wpm. Publishers recommend books on tape to be voiced at 150 - 160 wpm." I've known plenty of professors who'd give a country auctioneer a run for his money, and the average professional transcriber (from dictated source material) can barely manage 75 wpm on the keyboard.  Cursive notehand can keep up with any Human except for those advertising next Sunday's drag races at the local speedway, and shorthand is fast enough (high: 282 wpm) to allow a student to draw cartoons of the teacher while recording a lecture verbatim.  Now we're teaching kids that 15 wpm - the average hand-printing speed - is all they need in Life.

 

I think I'm beginning to realise why the average SAT score is 60% these days (congratulations here to the great state of Maine, whose average SAT score was 57.875 in 2011).  American schools are compensating, however.  On May 16th 2012, Florida dropped its passing grade to 50%, and Texas (Austin School District), not to be outdone, lowered passing grades across the board in individual subjects for the TAKS - the lowest passing grade being assigned for Social Studies, at 43.75% - 21 / 48.

 

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Meanwhile in America...

(49 Replies / 1,703 Views)
Meanwhile in America...
Jun 13, 2012 06:31 AM

.

 

In the fifties, there was some serious debate about Parents teaching their children cursive before entering their first school year.  Primary school educators of the era held that printing should be taught first, to give youngsters a grasp of letter formation, and cursive wasn't taught until students' second year in primary schools.

 

The morning news' lead story claims that students are no longer taught cursive handwiting in either primary or secondary courses in more than 50% of America's schools -

 

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22can%27t%20write%20cursive%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np

 

- and further claims that students are scoring poorly or failing college courses owed to the inability to take the necessary study notes.  Does anyone in the academic community ever consider the repurcussions of such sweeping changes these days, or have these students simply been condemned to mediocrity by the system through no fault of their own?

 

"An average American English speaker engaged in a friendly conversation speaks at a rate of approximately 110 – 150 wpm. Publishers recommend books on tape to be voiced at 150 - 160 wpm." I've known plenty of professors who'd give a country auctioneer a run for his money, and the average professional transcriber (from dictated source material) can barely manage 75 wpm on the keyboard.  Cursive notehand can keep up with any Human except for those advertising next Sunday's drag races at the local speedway, and shorthand is fast enough (high: 282 wpm) to allow a student to draw cartoons of the teacher while recording a lecture verbatim.  Now we're teaching kids that 15 wpm - the average hand-printing speed - is all they need in Life.

 

I think I'm beginning to realise why the average SAT score is 60% these days (congratulations here to the great state of Maine, whose average SAT score was 57.875 in 2011).  American schools are compensating, however.  On May 16th 2012, Florida dropped its passing grade to 50%, and Texas (Austin School District), not to be outdone, lowered passing grades across the board in individual subjects for the TAKS - the lowest passing grade being assigned for Social Studies, at 43.75% - 21 / 48.

 

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Page: 2 of 3
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by spirit-of-shiloh (351 ) View Listings
(24 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 14, 2012 04:20 PM

You need a hot beverage?

 

Liz

.

 

That is the social convention, after all....

 

.

(25 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 14, 2012 10:32 PM

No I am not a Zebra I am a Sagitarrean who is Sheldon Cooper

 

Ok it is absurd to think any real teacher would actually enjoy tutoring! too boring... just one student? yuk

 

One morning after a night class I was phoned that a student was complaining./ I knew she would she had demanded that I provide her with private lessons

 

yuk

 

I was smart enough to not say no I can't rather oh it isn't possible because of my schedule

 

she called the prevost

 

yeah that is what she did

 

If adults had to put up with the gobblety gunk that 3-12 grade students get--- well they would not be so passive as to just fall asleep

 

Education people the capital E educators have a favorite word

 

paradigm

 

I think K-2 is still very seminar-esque in style


Art Bird Red Art*Fine*Contemporary*Modern

(26 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 14, 2012 10:32 PM

sorry it is late I am not Sheldon Cooper

 

I was asking who is that?


Art Bird Red Art*Fine*Contemporary*Modern

(27 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 14, 2012 10:34 PM

I am off to get a hot beverage


Art Bird Red Art*Fine*Contemporary*Modern

(28 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 14, 2012 10:38 PM

duh anudder era n spellemm

 

PROVOST


Art Bird Red Art*Fine*Contemporary*Modern

(29 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 15, 2012 04:16 AM

Nothing hot here because I like cold beverages , uh huh, cuz I'm feelin' kinda thirst-a.

 

(I can't believe that awful song is almost fifteen years old.)

(30 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 15, 2012 05:53 AM
My favorite Sheldon Cooper quote:
"I'm not insane, my mother had me tested."
(31 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 15, 2012 09:06 PM

57.875% of what?  We'ver been having an on-going debate about the relative merits of charter schools in my state.  As part of that debate arguments arise concerning standardized tests and what the results mean, e.g. "ACT College readiness".  When I see stats concerning the meaning of standardized test results I have learned you always have to look behind them.  

 

The SAT is a standardized test that scores with a max of 2400 (800 on 3 different sections).  The test is designed so that the median score will be 500.  The test was "recentered" in the 90s because many more students were taking the test due to certain states requiring all students to take it.  This large influx of test takes resulted in the median score drifting downward into the 400s.  

 

I am not sure what the percentages would apply to though.

 

 

(32 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 16, 2012 01:10 AM

I'll get this out of the way first:

 

I do think that children need to know how to write cursive. I do not know if that is still a requirement in public schools. Probably easy enough to find if I just do a bit of googling.

 

But, by gosh, I do so hate these "education has gone to hell in a handbasket" threads. I really do.

 

There are some amazing things that go on in both public and private schools. The education is not all just "dumbed down" and worthless.

 

The standardized tests ARE a problem. The tests are a problem because of how they are used.

 

I could go on and on, but it is late (or early?)

I should think more before I say more.

(33 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 16, 2012 06:45 AM

I'll get this out of the way first:

 

I do think that children need to know how to write cursive. I do not know if that is still a requirement in public schools. Probably easy enough to find if I just do a bit of googling.

 

But, by gosh, I do so hate these "education has gone to hell in a handbasket" threads. I really do.

 

There are some amazing things that go on in both public and private schools. The education is not all just "dumbed down" and worthless.

 

The standardized tests ARE a problem. The tests are a problem because of how they are used.

 

I could go on and on, but it is late (or early?)

I should think more before I say more.

 

 

When more than half of all graduating high school seniors cannot identify more than 80% of the words on either the 1953 or the revised GSL, and university graduates (BA or BS: source: HEW 2010) evidence a utilised (i.e. spoken) vocabulary of 1,900 words, and a reading vocabulary of less than 6,000 words (compared to figures compiled 112 years ago, this indicates that modern Americans have between one quarter and one fifth the 'average' vocabulary of those at the turn of the century) the problem goes a lot deeper than "the standardised tests [being] a problem."

 

.

(34 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 16, 2012 11:26 AM

Fine:

 

I think the current research shows that working vocabularies are not decreasing but they are changing at a much more rapid pace - due obviously to technology.

 

Again, when you look at statistics, particularly those which attempt to compare groups across substantial time periods, you are going to run into problems.  Simply put, today we are keeping more kids in school longer, we are testing many kids who we never would have tested previously (i.e. kids who in the past would have been considered "slow" and did not need tested (because that might harm the school's reputation), and we are testing many more kids in general.  Quite a few states now require high school students to take either the SAT or ACT.  In the past, or today in several states, only students who are seeking to go on to college take those tests.  That obviously is a very different testing group.  

 

I am curious about your comment concerning college graduates.  Can you post a link to the research or cite for that figure.  My guess would be that any substantive difference would likely be attributable to the far greater numbers of college graduates today versus even 40 years ago. but I would like to see the research.

 

 

(35 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 24, 2012 04:03 PM

Todays vocabulary.

 

Yo,wus up?

Where you at?

I ain't gonna do it!

Now I spose I can do that?

Me and him liked it very much.

I seen that too.]:)

 




Photobucket

(36 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 24, 2012 09:43 PM

I`m probably too tired to make this post make much sense, but it is vital to further learning (let alone education) that children learn to print becauose learning to print patterns the brain (and hands) and it is this patterning that is akin to building blocks for further learning.  :)Wendy

(37 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 27, 2012 07:24 PM

Just a general question for the boardies:

 

When was the last time you wrote a paragraph longhand?


Bob

(38 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 27, 2012 07:37 PM

Just a general question for the boardies:

 

When was the last time you wrote a paragraph longhand?

 

 

Some time between dinner and this post - maybe eight o'clockish Eastern.

 

.

(39 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 27, 2012 07:42 PM

For me it was about a year ago.  I was amazed at how badly my handwriting has deteriorated - it being such a long time since I had taken pen in hand.


Bob

(40 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 27, 2012 08:08 PM

For me it was about a year ago.  I was amazed at how badly my handwriting has deteriorated - it being such a long time since I had taken pen in hand.

 

 

I suspect (though it's merely a guess) that your case might be more the exception than the rule; most people still have social obligations to discharge - invitations to answer, greeting cards exchanged, thank-you notes to Friends, Family and clients, correspondence from people who don't use computers, and cetera - and booksellers are generally copious note-takers, especially while collating a book.

 

.

(41 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 27, 2012 08:20 PM

I hope you're right.

 

About a year ago I sold a paperweight that had the name of an Indiana town set into it in a cursive script done in copper wire.  It went back to that town in Indiana.  About the same time, I read that Indiana was going to stop teaching cursive writing and it struck me as odd that suceeding generations might not know what was written into that paperweight.


Bob

(42 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 27, 2012 08:38 PM

I hope you're right.

 

About a year ago I sold a paperweight that had the name of an Indiana town set into it in a cursive script done in copper wire.  It went back to that town in Indiana.  About the same time, I read that Indiana was going to stop teaching cursive writing and it struck me as odd that suceeding generations might not know what was written into that paperweight.

 

 

There are hands which give lots of people pause - in part the reason which Charlemagne standardised as much as possible the Carolingian hand.  What we're doing in failing to teach the written language is eroding the ability to communicate.  Then again "o i c u 8 2na 4 lunch" isn't helping either.  Perhaps it's time to kill the internet as well as the television.

 

.

(43 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 29, 2012 01:14 PM

My three children attended a Montessori preschool and kindergarten where they were taught cursive writing only. They also learned to write their own stories before they could read.

 

By the time they entered public school first grade, they were reading books and knew the printed characters, so it was easy for them to adapt to printing.

(44 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 29, 2012 03:31 PM

(45 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 29, 2012 04:27 PM
(46 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 29, 2012 05:01 PM

I agree that the poster should be posted in every school.  I don't need it posted in our "school," however . . .

(47 of 49)
Re: Meanwhile in America...
Jun 30, 2012 07:52 AM

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I am glad that was not posted in any of my classrooms.  It is so harsh, and so grim; so dog-eat-dog.  I was born in the 1940s and educated in American public schools.  I am glad that we were allowed to indulge our youthful idealism, and to see life as bright and full of promise.  I'm glad no one ever told us that our futures held nothing more than slugging rats for ungrateful employers. I'm glad that my parents enjoyed their own lives and did not accuse me of wearing them down into boring nonentities through providing for me.

I am especially glad that Rule No. 1 was not posted in any school I attended.  Absolute fairness may not be attainable, but fairness is still the ideal.  In our personal conduct, we should always strive for fairness in all our dealings with one another.  At least, that is what I was taught at home and had reinforced in the public schools I attended.  


P.S.  For the record, Bill Gates did not write or ever quote those "rules," which are the work of Charles J. Sykes.

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