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Last Post May 8, 2007 6:28 PM by: bkenn01
Replies: 105
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mcgrrrrr
Posts: 111

Are You Ready for Feedback 2.0

Mar 25, 2007 1:41 PM
I am sorry this opening post is so long, but if you sell on eBay you may want to read it.

Feedback 2.0 is coming to the US and Canada soon. If you don’t know what it is, you should, as it will have a big impact on sellers.

Feedback 2.0 has been in force in the UK for a few weeks now and is still stirring up a lot of opinions and controversy. I went onto the eBay UK boards this week and posted a question asking for opinions. Boy did I get an earful.

The problem is that eBay North America is going to make a decision on this based on the experience of the UK and Australia, and we here in the US and Canada are going to be presented with a fait accompli. Once it is introduced that will be it. Sellers can complain all they want but we will be stuck with it and will not have had any chance to give input. Now is the time to learn about this thing and let eBay know your feelings.

Before I show you the comments here is a simple description of Feedback 2.0

Besides leaving a feedback comment, buyers can rate sellers in four categories with a 5-star system. The categories used in the UK include:
-item as described
-communication
-dispatch time (shipping)
-Postage and Packaging charges

The other big change with Feedback 2.0 is that the feedback comment shows the item title that was sold and the price the seller paid. If you want to see this in action, go to eBay.co.uk, open some auctions and click on the feedback score after the member’s ID.

So what do the UK sellers think of 2.0?

Here are some actual comments from the message boards. I have my own feelings but I have tried to be representative to be fair. If it seems like there are more negatives than positives, that’s just the way it is. Remember I am primarily looking at this from the seller’s standpoint –not the buyers. Here are a sampling of the comments:

Danger is that people who are satisfied will leave feedback but not use star ratings while those with a gripe will. If this happens then the ratings will not be a true reflection through a lack of fives. If there is a star system then it should be compulsory.
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Im finding people are ignoring the star ratings, maybe because they think that giving a good feedback is enough which it is really.

When we mail out items here first class buyers expect to receive it the next day which in theory they should. People in US are used to waiting 3-5 days for an item to arrive. It's a big country.

There was a lot of concern here about people loosing half a star for one thing or another, but it's settled down now and I don't think that anyone's sales have suffered because they have lost a star. It's the other issues going on that are loosing people sales.

It's a good feedback % score that will sway buyers not that a seller hasn't got 5 star ratings across the board

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OP - The main problems are that it's a biased system - buyers get to rate sellers in great detail, but sellers don't get to rate buyers in the same way. Secondly, as has been evidenced by the numerous threads on Ebay.UK already, people's opinions differ wildly over what constitutes good, bad or average. We've had people saying they will start with 5 stars and only knock some off for very bad service - and we've had others saying they will start out by awarding 3 stars and only add any extra if the service is out of this world - ie the ratings are going to be fairly meaningless.

Won't matter too much if you have a high sales volume. It could be a serious problem if you have a low sales volume and are unlucky enough to get people a few sandwiches short of a picnic rating you.

The biggest concern seems to be P+P ratings. Example - I bought a vacuum cleaner from a guy yesterday which came via DHL next day service approx 130 miles for just £9 - great value IMHO. But the guy is still dropping marks on P+P from some buyers. What more do people want?!

Oh, and when the first threads rolled out it looked as though there was circa 95% opposition to the new FB system - so it's not just a few 'moaners' as some would have you believe.

---------

I sold a Hampster cage to a chap who left me a glowing feedback comment but then hit me with low stars on all four levels. I think the wheel was turning but the hamster was dead.

-----------

If buyers can rate sellers, why can't sellers rate buyers ?
I get buyers who pay within seconds of the auction ending
I get buyers who pay within a few days
I get buyers who seem to need a 7 day reminder to pay
I get buyers who need a non payment dispute to pay up
I get buyers who ask not to pay
I get buyers who ask stupid questions after they have bid and won.... and so it goes on

-------------

Why do I have to rate them all the same way ? Or could it all have just been left the way it was ?

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This one appears to be from a buyer but has a message for sellers:
"Can't believe that ebay is doing this??
Who came up with this idiocy ???

This is surely an invasion of PRIVACY.

What I purchase on ebay should be my own personal business. Why does it have to be listed for the world to see? I'm not ashamed of my purchases, but whether I buy a pack of pencils, or a bed sheet, it's MY business!!

This means, I can look at a Shopseller's profile, who sells simular items to what I sell, and see where they purchase their stock or packaging, if they've purchased them on ebay.

This means I can get really curious about a gift that hubby's purchased for my birthday, and just click on his ebay id and see what he's got me!!

This means I wont be doing much shopping on ebay anymore.

Ebay has lost a chunk of my business, I'll rather go to my local stores now, at least there I'll get more privacy than what I'm getting on ebay!!

LOSING BUSINESS... (the only way you guys listen). "

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I used to buy the ocassional naughty item on eBay --but NO MORE. I don't want everyone to see what I bought and what I paid for it.

------------

I've been mailed by a buyer who said "couldn't give you a 5 on postage cost because it took 2 days to arrive"
He paid on Wednesday night, it arrived Friday, you can't beat that yet I still get a 4 star.

------------

I've had nearly 150 feedback left for me since the new system started, only 45 have bothered with the star ratings

One lady emailed to say she'd paid at 2pm and her item arrived at 8.30am the next morning - we had a little chat and I mentioned that perhaps she'd get other items a bit faster now the new ratings had come in - she knew nothing about them

Another lady emailed to thank me for refunding her extra postage - I trotted out the same line as above - she knew nothing about it either

------------------
Danger is that people who are satisfied will leave feedback but not use star ratings while those with a gripe will. If this happens then the ratings will not be a true reflection through a lack of fives. If there is a star system then it should be compulsory.

As a seller I hate the new feedback forum layout. I don't need an image of the item, the item description is in large type with the buyers ID underneath in much smaller font and there are only 10 items. It's the buyers ID I need first not the item description.

I much prefer the old layout with buyer ID on top line and 25 items per page which much quicker to use.

------------

So I hope you found this interesting as I did. I would love to hear your comments and concerns. eBay reads these boards, so maybe someone there might be interested as well. Besides posting here, you may want to do new topics as well so this issue get some visability before its a done deal.
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manwithtoolstosell2
Posts: 236
(1 of 105)

Are You Ready for Feedback 2.0

Mar 25, 2007 2:05 PM
It just seems that there are too many people at ebay that seem to think that constant cnange is necessary. I always believed that if isn't broken than don't fix it. Ebay is always changing things and its just about the time that you get comfortable with it. Changes for change sake is just stiupid.
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mcgrrrrr
Posts: 111
(2 of 105)

Are You Ready for Feedback 2.0

Mar 25, 2007 2:12 PM
I agree. This thing is taking up and will take up a lot of technical resources that could have been spent fixing platform glitches, preventing fruad, fixing the real problems with feedback such as malicious and retaliatory feedback, etc. From my read on the British boards, it seems that about 80% or more of sellers don't like it. On the buyer side it seems to be 50% love it, 25% don't care and the rest are upset about everyone being able to see what they are buying and how much they paid for it. The last item is especially true for collectors who like to be really private and are very competitive buyers.
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cashmcl
Posts: 3
(3 of 105)

Are You Ready for Feedback 2.0

Mar 25, 2007 3:34 PM
For many of the reasons listed above I think it's a terrible idea. I sincerely hope it does *not* make it live to Ebay US.

If they want to improve feedback then maybe (and not even saying they definitely should) look into double blind feedback or similar features. Personally I think it is fine as is.

Feedback obviously isn't perfect, but it can help differentiate dead-beats from stand-outs, and thats all that really matters. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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tigerlilly1969
Posts: 2,983
(4 of 105)

Are You Ready for Feedback 2.0

Mar 25, 2007 3:42 PM
I personally think that if someone leaves positive feedback that you should automatically get the best rating in all categories unless they manually change it. Same with neutral, middle of the road rating, and for negative you should get the bottom of the barrel rating. That would solve the whole dispute about it not showing a fairly accurate picture. To me, if I am happy, I am going to leave everything with the highest rating possible.

Change happens every day in our lives. We don't have to accept it but we have to learn how to work with it.


Locate wholesalers & distributors!



Tigerlilly
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faeries_finest
Posts: 10,829
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Are You Ready for Feedback 2.0

Mar 25, 2007 5:02 PM
I sell on Amazon which allows buyer feedback but not seller feedback - although a seller can make a response. We provide the same products and service level to Amazon and get much lower ratings. I think the primary reason is that the feedback system there encourages buyers not to contact the seller - just leave feedback. There have been several situations that I corrected after I saw the feedback but was unaware of before.

Faerie
faerie's finest - enchanting your life with flavor

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manwithtoolstosell2
Posts: 236
(6 of 105)

Are You Ready for Feedback 2.0

Mar 25, 2007 6:18 PM
Another aspect is it is hard enough to get feedback-in my sales I find that between 13 to 17 percent do not leave feedback. It sounds like the process of leaving feedback will be more complicated than the current way. So might this just promote less feedback?
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jbrookshire01
Posts: 376
(7 of 105)

Are You Ready for Feedback 2.0

Mar 25, 2007 7:09 PM
The other big change with Feedback 2.0 is that the feedback comment shows the item title that was sold and the price the seller paid.

I noticed the other day when I was looking at another ebay site. I like the fact it showed the item. That might keep feedbacks from being about the seller or their items b/c ppl can see what they sell


All in all though, I think its too much- I mean its hard enough to get people to leave feedback as it is.

Jenn

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chippiesavalanche
Posts: 1,569
(8 of 105)

Are You Ready for Feedback 2.0

Mar 25, 2007 8:08 PM
Greetings!

has anyone noted that this makes law enforcements job REAL easy?

just go to ebay, pull up your suspect, and see everything he/she has ever bought or sold on ebay.


and realize, ultimately, people will become suspects based on what they buy.

i.e. if you are someone who has bought an item (innocently) but also happens to be the exact same type of item that a terrorist bought on ebay while he was being a sleeper agent, and when the fbi and homeland bust him, they detail his life, including ebay.

now, because terrorist x buys item y, and you happen to buy item y, well....its possible people who buy item y may be terrorists.

also, they will talk with everone that did business with said terrorist.

ugh. this is not good.

michael
chippiesavalanche

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Closing the Recycling loop: Reuse
Sale of New and Used Electronics and Computer items.
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shelley-faye
Posts: 775
(9 of 105)

Are You Ready for Feedback 2.0

Mar 25, 2007 11:48 PM
I think this is ebays answer to the problem of sellers holding feedback hostage. Many buyers (myself included) have an issue with the sellers who hold feedback in order to insure getting a positive or will leave retaliation neutrals or negatives.
It happened to me the other day, I had a seller who would not respond to any of my inquiries about my missing package and when it did finally arrive 10 days later and was sent first class when I paid for priority I asked for a refund of the difference in shipping costs. of course, no response, so after 5 days I left a neutral, which in my opinion was very generous. And what do you know, I got a neutral in return! What exactly did I do wrong? I paid 10 minutes after winning and then tried all kinds of forms of communication first before going to feedback, but I got a neutral anyway.
I guess that is why ebay doesn't allow sellers to rate buyers in this fasion.

I guess we'll see soon enough won't we?
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rosachs
Posts: 7,976
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Are You Ready for Feedback 2.0

Mar 26, 2007 12:02 AM
Without the ability for sellers to rate buyers in the same fashion, this new feedback becomes just a stick for buyers to again bash sellers. We already have to deal with buyers who don't read terms, who don't pay on time, who pay short but expect overnight delivery, who don't understand the difference between USPS Parcel Post and FedEx First Overnight services, and who are just interested in how they can get something for even less than they already agreed to pay for it.

Until eBay gets a more 'balanced' view of who really pays their bills, things like this will continue to go on. This is clearly a buyer-centric change... it does nothing for the sellers and can clearly become very detrimental to new sellers, who already have enough problems with the existing feedback system.


Feedback 1.0 was fair and balanced because we all were equal -- and it was simple enough for all but the most brain-dead buyers to use.

Yet another nail in the coffin of the small/casual seller. And yet it does nothing to defer fraud, offset fee avoidance, or prevent scams. All that time and money wasted, when it could have been better spent elsewhere, making real changes to serve real needs.

-Bob.

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shelley-faye
Posts: 775
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Are You Ready for Feedback 2.0

Mar 26, 2007 8:08 AM
I just logged into the UK site to check and see if I had a star rating yet (I sell to the UK quite often), I don't, but I did notice that the feedback you get from sellers does not show up with the cost of the item.

I know some folks had mentioned the invasion of privacy issue, and well, it does still show what you bought, but it doesn't show how much you paid for it. It only shows the amounts for items that you have sold.
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cashmcl
Posts: 3
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Are You Ready for Feedback 2.0

Mar 26, 2007 8:22 AM
As far as the feedback hostage goes I agree its not perfect, but as a Seller I do not blindly send feedback upon receiving payment. In my eyes the sale is not completed until the buyer receives shipment and is satisfied with the product. And yes, often time receiving feedback from the buyer is confirmation that they are satisfied.

When problems do arise how the buyer handles things is a *large* part of their quality as a buyer, and if they are already sitting there with a positive feedback thats a problem. If you run a brick-and-mortar store you would not label a customer as "good" immediately after receiving payment just to have the buyer then spit in your face and throw a rock through your window on the way out. Too bad you already announced to the world how good they are...in un-removable permanent ink.


I think most people have accepted that feedback is not perfect, yet still quite usable and helpful. It's a good, but not great, system...a system that does not need an overhaul that seems shortsighted and more broken than the system it replaces.
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mcgrrrrr
Posts: 111
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Are You Ready for Feedback 2.0

Mar 26, 2007 12:28 PM
Showing the item purchased by each seller is going to be very interesting for buyers in the Adult Category.

The other issue is that this will increase fraud. If, for example, someone sees that you pruchase expensive art,jewelry or Antiques, that will make you an automatic target for scammers.
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realconnections
Posts: 32
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Are You Ready for Feedback 2.0

Mar 26, 2007 3:29 PM
I think this is ebays answer to the problem of sellers holding feedback hostage. Many buyers (myself included) have an issue with the sellers who hold feedback in order to insure getting a positive or will leave retaliation neutrals or negatives.
It happened to me the other day, I had a seller who would not respond to any of my inquiries about my missing package and when it did finally arrive 10 days later and was sent first class when I paid for priority I asked for a refund of the difference in shipping costs. of course, no response, so after 5 days I left a neutral, which in my opinion was very generous. And what do you know, I got a neutral in return! What exactly did I do wrong? I paid 10 minutes after winning and then tried all kinds of forms of communication first before going to feedback, but I got a neutral anyway.
I guess that is why ebay doesn't allow sellers to rate buyers in this fasion.

I guess we'll see soon enough won't we?


Time to wake up and find out there is no santa.
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