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I feel so demoralized.

(1 of 29)
I feel so demoralized.
Jul 25, 2012 02:04 PM

I participated on the discussion board yesterday regarding the Fall updates.  It's inconsequential to me that none of the staff responded to my thread, as I didn't expect it.  Yet, with all of the impersonal, stock replies I saw copied and pasted by staff from thread to thread, it just really indicates to me how truly trivial the concerns are of small sellers.

 

Today a customer wrote to me telling me that her package wasn't delivered even though tracking indicates that it was.  Even though eBay does not hold sellers accountable for packages that show as delivered, USPS has been making mistakes more and more frequently.  I'm surprised that eBay hasn't yet started holding sellers accountable for these types of incidents (and perhaps I shouldn't give them any ideas). I offered the buyer a partial refund of 50%, because I feel that with all the errors USPS has made recently she deserves the benefit of the doubt.  Despite my conscientious and generous efforts, the potential for negative feedback looms.

 

I revised my return policies recently to indicate that I am no longer going to be manipulated.  Not in such words, but if a customer leaves a neg, there it will stay.  I will no longer submit feedback revision requests or cave into unreasonable demands like free return shipping to due buyer remorse or error.  My current return policy is as good as Amazon Prime -- literally -- and I ship nearly as fast.  Despite this, eBay still allows some of these dishonest customers to slip through the cracks to take advantage of me and harm my reputation.

 

And what about this new policy that doesn't allow a description header/notes for new items?  They state, and I quote:  "New items should not need further explanation. If your item requires an explanation, you should consider a different condition value for item condition."* What, like "used"?  The items that I sell are new, but the packaging isn't always perfect.  How do I reach those sellers who don't take the time to read item descriptions?  In Health & Beauty, I can only list an item as new or used.  What about "new other"?

 

*Scroll to the question  "Why do I not see the item condition notes field when I’m listing an item in “New”, “Brand New”, “New With Tags” or “New In Box” condition?" under Item condition notes.

 

http://pages.ebay.com/sellerinformation/news/fallupdate2012/boostsales.html?ssPageName=boostsalesMyMessages

 

Remember the slogan "If it's on your mind, it's on eBay"?  I think that's a thing of the past.  People who sell small ticket items, such as baseball cards, stickers, low-end coins, etc., simply cannot justify the expense of tracking and are being driven out.  I'm not far behind those people -- most of the items I sell are low-ticket items and items that people only look for once in a blue moon.  It isn't profitable to conduct auctions for many rarely sought after items, and I can't afford the recurrent .20 insertion fee every month.  Just the other day I had to pull 30 listings.

 

I'm trying to figure out where eBay is going with its lack of substance where seller protection is concerned and all of these changes that negatively affect small sellers.  I need to know where my future stands.  Perhaps I'm naive.  Any insight would be helpful.

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I feel so demoralized.

(28 Replies / 837 Views)
I feel so demoralized.
Jul 25, 2012 02:04 PM

I participated on the discussion board yesterday regarding the Fall updates.  It's inconsequential to me that none of the staff responded to my thread, as I didn't expect it.  Yet, with all of the impersonal, stock replies I saw copied and pasted by staff from thread to thread, it just really indicates to me how truly trivial the concerns are of small sellers.

 

Today a customer wrote to me telling me that her package wasn't delivered even though tracking indicates that it was.  Even though eBay does not hold sellers accountable for packages that show as delivered, USPS has been making mistakes more and more frequently.  I'm surprised that eBay hasn't yet started holding sellers accountable for these types of incidents (and perhaps I shouldn't give them any ideas). I offered the buyer a partial refund of 50%, because I feel that with all the errors USPS has made recently she deserves the benefit of the doubt.  Despite my conscientious and generous efforts, the potential for negative feedback looms.

 

I revised my return policies recently to indicate that I am no longer going to be manipulated.  Not in such words, but if a customer leaves a neg, there it will stay.  I will no longer submit feedback revision requests or cave into unreasonable demands like free return shipping to due buyer remorse or error.  My current return policy is as good as Amazon Prime -- literally -- and I ship nearly as fast.  Despite this, eBay still allows some of these dishonest customers to slip through the cracks to take advantage of me and harm my reputation.

 

And what about this new policy that doesn't allow a description header/notes for new items?  They state, and I quote:  "New items should not need further explanation. If your item requires an explanation, you should consider a different condition value for item condition."* What, like "used"?  The items that I sell are new, but the packaging isn't always perfect.  How do I reach those sellers who don't take the time to read item descriptions?  In Health & Beauty, I can only list an item as new or used.  What about "new other"?

 

*Scroll to the question  "Why do I not see the item condition notes field when I’m listing an item in “New”, “Brand New”, “New With Tags” or “New In Box” condition?" under Item condition notes.

 

http://pages.ebay.com/sellerinformation/news/fallupdate2012/boostsales.html?ssPageName=boostsalesMyMessages

 

Remember the slogan "If it's on your mind, it's on eBay"?  I think that's a thing of the past.  People who sell small ticket items, such as baseball cards, stickers, low-end coins, etc., simply cannot justify the expense of tracking and are being driven out.  I'm not far behind those people -- most of the items I sell are low-ticket items and items that people only look for once in a blue moon.  It isn't profitable to conduct auctions for many rarely sought after items, and I can't afford the recurrent .20 insertion fee every month.  Just the other day I had to pull 30 listings.

 

I'm trying to figure out where eBay is going with its lack of substance where seller protection is concerned and all of these changes that negatively affect small sellers.  I need to know where my future stands.  Perhaps I'm naive.  Any insight would be helpful.

Page: 2 of 2
 
Last Post
by rosachs (9638 ) View Listings
(24 of 28)
Re: I feel so demoralized.
Jul 26, 2012 09:07 PM

"Pretty sad when an honest, motivated seller ends up feeling the way I do now."

 

It's a phase - you'll either learn and grow or get fed up and go.  If you were to look at the vast majority of long-term sellers, they've all gone thru the same, either on eBay or in their learning phase before they even thought about eBay.  It's part of the process - no one has all the right answers every time from the very beginning.

 

 

"Unfortunately, for all that pain, eBay has not afforded me the independence to write my own return policy within their guidelines and honor it."

 

eBay does allow you to write your own return policy... but that has nothing to do buyers leaving whatever feedback they want or sellers 'giving in' to unreasonable buyer demands in hopes of receiving truthful feedback.  Though they are related for sellers, they are not for buyers.

 

Again - learn and grow or reject and go.  Who says 'once an eBay seller, only an eBay seller'?  Evaluate your venues periodically and make your plans accordingly.  If a venue isn't working, drop it, or change how you use it.  Sitting around complaining will change nothing.

 

 

"That being said, I have investigated local and federal regulations."

 

No slight was intended by my original comment - only the fact that as your sales grow, you will come within the attention of the local taxing authorities -- and one thing we all know about government: if they are due a dime, they will come after it.  Casual eBay sellers can get by the same way that the occassional yardsale seldom remit sales tax.  But as you grow, they -will- start to become interested.

 

 

"...who never did consider eBay to be the 'be-all-end-all' when it came to their business plan.'

 

I wonder why?"

 

You would be surprised at the percentage of newbie sellers who feel eBay should be 'protecting' them or 'be a better partner'.  eBay is not now, nor have they ever been, a 'partner' to their sellers.  The faster a new seller drops that "romantic" notion, the sooner they can begin treating eBay as just another venue - to be used while it works and dropped when it doesn't.

 

eBay is an expense, just like any other.  When the expense exceeds the profits, or the restrictions from the venue become too onerous, you leave.  Balance the good with the bad and make the call -- you'd be surprised how many folks can't do just that.

 

 

"...ultimately I did the right thing by offering a refund, and was promptly rewarded with negative feedback based on a customer who was incensed that she was required to return the item."

 

There have always been and will likely always be buyers who want it all for little or nothing and will lash out when they feel they are not being pampered.  Keeping "the masses" happy has been an issue for retailers since the beginning of trade.  But if you look at the total numbers - you meet a lot more decent folk than you do the other kind.  Where you focus your attention is up to you.  :)

 

 

"1)  Lack of guidelines as to how long a seller should require a buyer to pay (as noted on the page in the link I posted above), including that the seller's requested timeframe for payment will not be honored by eBay."

 

There are no guidelines because there is no restriction.  You can wait as long as you like for payment - that's your call.  But you have to wait at least four days before you can file a claim for non-payment.  Reverse logic... but that's the way some people's minds work.

 

 

"2)  Stealing a seller's final value fees (since after an item is relisted, I cannot file a non-payment claim -- or at least if I did it would be rejected)."

 

8 days is the minimum wait - you can hold off relisting for 8 days, can't you?  Again - weigh the options... wait 8 days and get the fee refunded, or relist immediately and hope for another sale.

 

 

"3)  Although eBay allows sellers request the timeframe in which they would like to paid, they do not honor it as evidenced by the non-removal of negative feedback left for me by a buyer who did not honor my request."

 

8 days.  If you stick to the minimums, that's all it takes.  And if the non-paying bidder does not respond to the claim, they will be blocked from leaving feedback.  At least that's how it's always worked for me...

 

 

"I do very much appreciate the helpful replies here."

 

I believe you - most folks who are intent only on venting seldom get past the original post.  And your responses have been lucid and well stated - another thing the 'venters' seldom are able to do.

 

eBay can be profitable, confining, a great marketing tool, a pain in the tuckus, more work than it's worth, and a great place to clear out inventory quickly.  Which of those apply to your experiences are mostly up to you, much moreso than you might think.

 

I earned a livable wage selling on consignment on eBay for over 6 years.  I've been selling on the site since '97.  Today, my sales are for relaxation and enjoyment, having decided that I'd rather stay married to my wife than my computer.  My business plan was sound, and profitable, but I found I didn't want to run a business.  So I've returned to my previous occupation (IT consulting) and am working to get back up to speed (a lot changes in IT in 10 years!) and back to full-time employment.

 

I enjoy eBay today more than I did just 4 years ago, and that's a good thing.  But I do so on my terms... when eBay's terms are no longer acceptable, I have other places I sell product as well.

 

You'll find your balance, make your call, and adjust your path accordingly.  And find that it wasn't really that hard after all.  :)

 

-Bob.



RKS Solutions LLC logo
V.46 Trading Assistant/Consignment sales, since 1997!
See my About Me page for more details on the best tools for desktop automation for eBay!

(25 of 28)
Re: I feel so demoralized.
Jul 26, 2012 10:07 PM

Very eloquently said, Bob, BRAVO!!  :)  *bows*  ;)



Carry the REAL thing

(26 of 28)
Re: I feel so demoralized.
Jul 26, 2012 11:44 PM

Greetings Bob.  I was hoping with my last post to end it there, as I had finished expressing my concerns.

 

I'm sorry if you misinterpreted my very legitimate concerns or posting "tone" as “sitting around complaining”, so forgive me if I feel a tad insulted.  Unfortunately, I’m not in a position to make tweaks that are beyond my control.  It certainly wasn't my intent to complain; however, as these concerns affect me on a personal level, I may be lacking in objectivity a tad where my perception of complaining vs. constructive criticism is concerned.  And the *last* thing I wanted was to turn this into a counseling session.  But I am humbled and appreciative of your thoughtful post which deserves to be acknowledged.

 

I agree that it's time to balance the good with the bad and make the call.  That time has come and gone, and the call has already been made.  Perhaps I'm feeling a bit disillusioned that after having completing my "cost benefit analysis", it’s abundantly clear that eBay is not the place for someone in my niche, and I’m grasping at straws for eBay to make reasonable improvements.  It's not that my seller performance is any worse than someone who sells common paper clips or that I haven’t been as accommodating, it's that my chosen niche opens me up to a greater risk of negative feedback.  Perhaps eBay is a good venue for someone else selling a different product line or for someone who hasn’t chosen e-commerce as a career.

 

Yes, I tend to view things in black and white at times, and I can be overly critical and pessimistic.  Still, eBay’s critical flaws are a valid reality, not just for me, but for thousands of other eBay sellers.

 

Have you seen the results of this poll?  I personally did not vote, as none of the options were relevant to my e-commerce goals:

 

http://www.squidoo.com/google_auctions-vs-ebay

 

As far as my feedback and the number of “decent folk” vs. “the other kind”, the customers whose unreasonable demands I have pacified are not indicated in numbers there.  Nor is my loss of dignity or losses in dollars.

 

But yes, I have learned a lot from my time on eBay, both good and bad.  I’ll take the good and leave the rest.

 

Thank you, and best of luck to you in catching up with the evolution of your IT profession.  How things evolve can be a fascinating and exciting thing.  I guess a person’s perspective just depends on how that evolution affects his or her career goals personally.

 

;)

(27 of 28)
Re: I feel so demoralized.
Jul 27, 2012 10:09 PM

I have been reconsidering some of the things Bob (and others) have written.  Like I said before, I really, really didn't want to drag this thread out, but for the sake of others who might learn something from my experiences and follies, I opted to continue.

In my first post I mentioned a customer who claimed she never received her package, and that I offered a 50% refund.  Ultimately I ended up refunding her purchase in full.  She left positive feedback and honored that nonsensical cancel transaction request so I could recover my fees.  Was the loss of the cost of the item to me + shipping worth sparing myself a neg?  I can't say for sure (especially when eBay wouldn't hold me accountable for a refund), but when I factor in the implications of a string of hurt feelings in the event of a neg, then it was.

In a lot of ways I felt bad about the situation.  I can *usually* tell when someone is telling the truth, and there was nothing to indicate that she lied.  If this had happened on my own website, without question I would have refunded her purchase without batting an eye.  That's because misdeliveries are rare, and I wouldn't have to worry about paying off frivolous returns in an effort to spare my feedback.  eBay allows buyers to ding a seller's feedback when they don't read item descriptions despite being offered refunds.  It's unfair that I have to lose money over these types of incidents, but my TOS are likely to be no different on my own website as they are here (although since I'll be in a better mood, they might go back to "sounding" nice again).  Once a customer clicks that button at checkout that affirms that they have read and accepted my TOS, I won't have the eBay gods to answer to.  However, I always, always make amends for my own errors in the form of refunds, and most often the customer doesn't even have to return the item. 

As a related example, a couple of weeks ago I was weighing packages, and two of the packages were identical and weighed the same.  I mistakenly shipped the wrong package to a customer, and realized it the next day when shipping other orders.  I promptly shipped out the correct items without requesting the customer to return the ones I sent in error.  Would it have been a morally upstanding gesture for the customer to do so?  Yeah, but hey..........it was only a $39.42 profit loss to me, not to her.  That's something I would have done eBay or no eBay.  It was a costly error I learned from, which at the end of the day probably holds more value.  It was my mistake.

And although unreasonable demands happen to me more often than someone who sells paper clips (after all, few people are likely to complain that a paper clip doesn't *sPaRkLe* enough), I need to develop a better understanding that it isn't as easy for a customer to purchase a cosmetic item online as it is in person.  Although I include what I can in my listings, I don't know everything about all of my products, and photos don't always include enough information either.  Most people are intelligent enough to do more research before making a purchase, but some are not, including those who don't take the time to read at all.  It's difficult for me to empathize with these people, since I read everything I can before I purchase an unfamiliar item.

That being said, and because cosmetics is my chosen niche, I probably need to create a little more leeway with the expectation that these things will continue to happen -- although infrequently but more than I'd like -- and that not caving into unreasonable demands will not spare me any grief over the short term.  No, I shouldn't have to do it, and I certainly won't when I have my own site.  But it is what it is, and ultimately it will not break me.

I still wonder if I'm only trading one type of pain for another: the pain of negative feedback when I don't cave, or the pain of having my pride injured when I reward someone who lies and tries to cheat me.  To be sure the former has greater consequences where my livelihood is concerned.

Perhaps it works out in a different way.  That person will learn nothing, most likely go on to burn someone else where it won't be tolerated, and get what he or she deserves.  And I guess I could consider my generosity as an act of true nobility vs. a sacrifice without any real substance or meaning.

I would like to add here that when I decided not to leave initial feedback for customers, it was a very painful decision for me that took a long time to make, because I am so very grateful for my honest buyers (the majority of whom are).  I buy a lot of stuff on eBay, and for the longest time I didn't understand why most sellers didn't leave feedback for me (and it hurt).  Consequently, I didn't leave feedback for them.  But then after a few hard knocks as a seller, the realization came when I considered that I can't judge a stranger as trustworthy any more than I can judge one as a thief.

I'm not sure I will ever regret my reply to that last person who left me a neg, but yes, the venom in my veins is reflected in my current policies.  I will edit all 263 of them one by one (have I mentioned yet how badly eBay's bulk editing tool blows?).  Lol.


(28 of 28)
Re: I feel so demoralized.
Jul 27, 2012 10:49 PM

Please understand that not all my comments are necessarily directed to the person I originally reply to.  At times I ... uh... ramble, and in doing so, my focus may change from a direct answer to broad generalizations.

 

One point to consider - bulk insurance.  I've not personally looked into it yet, but I know there are companies that specialize in insuring eBay shipments, especially USPS with D/C, and that are much more realistically priced and easier to work with than the USPS.  As I understand it, you send them a list of your shipments and a fee and the shipments are insured.  If they are not delivered, or damaged en-route, you file a claim, which is forwarded to the customer/recipient for confirmation of details, and the payment is reimbursed.

 

Like I said, I don't use them myself, but it may be worth looking into, and I'm sure there will be someone along shortly to fill in the name or offer suggestions.

 

 

Just a little something that might help reduce that sting a bit more.  Probably wouldn't help with customer returns, but it would definitely help with the 'lost' stuff.  :)

 

-Bob.

 

PS: Reducing stress so you can continue to sell on eBay while setting up your own site and/or opening other venues is a very good idea.... cash flow is, after all, cash.  :)

 



RKS Solutions LLC logo
V.46 Trading Assistant/Consignment sales, since 1997!
See my About Me page for more details on the best tools for desktop automation for eBay!

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