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Last Post Mar 13, 2010 2:10 PM by: jmorgan_sales
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OT: Political Boxing Ring

Jun 9, 2008 5:49 AM
immigrants from Mexico and Central America, not so much

Since I was a bilingual Spanish/English teacher, that is exactly who I was talking about. I saw a strong family commitment to education among my students.

Sometimes I wonder how those kids fared once they got to the high school. As I have mentioned, it was an inner city district, with all of the problems that come with that.

Even highly motivated male high school students find it very tough to stay motivated when the best they can hope for after graduation is a minimum wage job. They are faced with at least two more years of education if they want to earn a decent wage.

Meanwhile their illiterate dropout peers who sell narcotics or pimp have an easy life with plenty of money
and chicks hanging all over them.


That is exactly the sort of thing I worried about. I was just a cog in the wheel, and I tried to do the best job I could while I was there. I don't think that the easy answers (eg that hispanics don't value education) were correct. I saw a lot of parents struggling to get by on multiple jobs, which left kids largely unsupervised in a dangerous urban environment. I saw those same parents talking to their kids--and their teachers--about the importance of an education. It's a tough situation, and I don't think the easy answers apply.

I think that Odie's comments were very much on point. I don't think that the problem is in the schools per se. I think that the schools are asked to deal with larger social problems than education without the funding or training to do so.

I'm not in that world any more. I burned out or sold out or whatever you want to call it. I have a lot of respect for the people who have stuck it out.

--Scott
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glocmt12
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OT: Political Boxing Ring

Jun 9, 2008 12:28 PM
I just got off the phone with a solicitor from NEPVA (New England Paralyzed Veterans of America).
Be wary of phone solicitors of this sort. Out here, most of these groups are scams which are simply in it for the money.
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rodger1225
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OT: Political Boxing Ring

Jun 9, 2008 12:42 PM
Be wary of phone solicitors of this sort. Out here, most of these groups are scams which are simply in it for the money.
You are very right Gloria...if folks want to contribute to a worthy cause along those lines,some research into outfit's financial records will steer you right.There are many fly-by-night scams with good sounding names popping up weekly.Do some research before you just send money blindly.Thanks,from an old vet.
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glocmt12
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OT: Political Boxing Ring

Jun 9, 2008 12:45 PM
I have no idea whether you were more useful to society as a teacher or in your present employ, Scott. When one makes a broad statement on the principles of any ideology, trying to fit every "cog", as you put it, into place is a futile exercise.

I do know that observing math textbooks in which there are cartoon illustrations showing Jamal, Maria and Mei-lin dividing oranges (in middle school!) have less to do with math and more to do with inclusion and diversity. Especially when you can get partial credit for a wrong answer and can use a calculator.

In the 19th Century, the education was no doubt more focused than it is today. If you read the letters of Civil War soldiers, you'll be impressed with not only their literacy, but their penmanship.

As I've pointed out before, I have a nephew in San Jose who graduated from high school and can't read but has spectacular self esteem.

I believe that when Jimmy Carter paid off the teachers' unions for their support by giving them a cabinet post, that accelerated the down fall in the quality of public school education in the US. Suddenly, you had a vast bureaucracy filled with New Left ideologues pushing their unproven ideas on, basically, the whole country. At least in the old days, each state educated their kids in a way unique to that region. Suddenly, you had the potential for one-size-fits-all teaching, rather than 50 different experiments. Of which, the best results could be propagated.
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glocmt12
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OT: Political Boxing Ring

Jun 9, 2008 12:56 PM
On the local front: According to the National Weather Service, for 14 months in a row, San Francisco has recorded a monthly average high temperature that was below normal.

I often wonder, if global warming (a process that has been going on for around 22,0000 years), has actually accelerated in the past decades, why haven't we broken any absolute heat records? The record high temperature was 136.4 degrees in Libya in 1922. The record heat wave was 43 days of consecutive over 120 degrees in Death Valley in 1917. For over 100 degrees, the record was set in Australia in 1923-24.

On the other hand, the record cold temperatures are almost all post WWII, during the Mini Ice Age that so worried us in the '70s.

A historical note: 1.2 million years ago, if you believe those who research this sort of thing, the world's average temperature was 95 degrees. I guess that's when our ancestors shed most of our fur and moved down out of the trees and down to the shore.
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glocmt12
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OT: Political Boxing Ring

Jun 9, 2008 1:11 PM
Also on the local front: there is definitely a difference in familial educational devotion in the various cultural groups that comprise my fair city.

The African American and Hispanic children had a far higher drop out rate than the Asian American and white children. Even when they attended the same school. Of course, most of the white kids don't go to public school.

Our last Superintendent of the San Francisco Unified School District and formerly Superintendent of Washington, D.C. Public Schools, Arlene Ackerman, tried to level the field for black students by busing kids across town. She so alienated the Asian parents that she left under fire. Without, of course, helping the black students in any way.

Now we have a Hispanic superintendent.

Of course, this is San Francisco, where the color of your skin and/or who you are physically attracted to counts for more than the quality of your ideas. Kind of like the opposite of Martin Luther King's stated ideals...
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OT: Political Boxing Ring

Jun 9, 2008 2:01 PM
I have no idea whether you were more useful to society as a teacher or in your present employ

Just yanking your chain, Gloria.

:O

--Scott
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OT: Political Boxing Ring

Jun 9, 2008 2:12 PM
The African American and Hispanic children had a far higher drop out rate than the Asian American and white children. Even when they attended the same school.

To really be interesting, numbers like these need to be corrected for family income. Correcting for home neighborhood (or crime rates near home) would also be interesting. I suspect that either correlation would be revealing.

I don't think there is much doubt that black and hispanic students face more pressure to join gangs and engage in certain types of criminal activity. (By "pressure" I mean "join our gang or we'll beat the bejeebers out of you on a regular basis.") This leads to the sorts of problems Odie pointed out, even for families where the parents are doing their level best.

I don't have a criminal law enforcement background, so I don't know what the right answer is. I don't think that the school district is necessarily the right place to address it, however. My knee-jerk reaction would be to send all the criminals to jail.

--Scott
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glocmt12
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OT: Political Boxing Ring

Jun 9, 2008 2:34 PM
Well, while money might be a factor (though the Asian immigrants tend to be sweat-shop poor), two-parent families might be an even better indicator.

But, the cultures of Asia tend to revere knowledge, education, wisdom, etc. While Dangerous Minds is only a movie, it was based on an actual local Bay Area high school (that my friend Liz went to, by the way). The attitude portrayed by the grandmother who pulled her grandkids from school is not a fabrication. Actually, my grandmother encouraged my brother Omar to cut school so "they" wouldn't take him. I can only assume that is an attitude going back to when special people got sacrificed to the gods.

Of course, I'm probably wrong about my culture and some white man will come along and explain why only liberals can understand these sort of things...

By the way, Scott, you can pull my chain any time you want.
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glocmt12
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OT: Political Boxing Ring

Jun 9, 2008 2:42 PM
Oh, also, one of the reasons that boys without fathers may tend to gravitate towards gangs is that is the only male role models they see.
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odiescoins
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OT: Political Boxing Ring

Jun 9, 2008 2:52 PM
My knee-jerk reaction would be to send all the criminals to jail.

Nah, it might ruin their self-esteem.
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odiescoins
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OT: Political Boxing Ring

Jun 9, 2008 2:53 PM
Can it be real? Two in a row?
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electron9876
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OT: Political Boxing Ring

Jun 9, 2008 4:39 PM
You mean all this arguing over affirmative action in college admissions is based on a premise that doesn't exist? I'm really confused now.

Ted, Firstly, I do appreciate that we can discuss this civilly, without the sometimes overblown rhetoric that accompanies this particular type of anonymous forum.

Secondly, I do feel you're at least somewhat confused. Affirmative action was not designed to compensate for minority students being less capable. It was designed to compensate for differences in opportunity facing minority students due to socioeconomic status, racism (historical and present), etc.
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electron9876
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OT: Political Boxing Ring

Jun 9, 2008 5:04 PM
2001 College-bound Seniors' Average SAT Scores by Group
Total
Ethnic Group
American Indian 960
Asian American 1067
Black 859
Mexican American 909
Puerto Rican 908
Other Hispanic or Latino 925
White 1060
Other 1015

Family Income
Less than $10,000/year 864
$10,000 - $20,000/year 898
$20,000 - $30,000/year 942
$30,000 - $40,000/year 976
$40,000 - $50,000/year 1004
$50,000 - $60,000/year 1011
$60,000 - $70,000/year 1035
$70,000 - $80,000/year 1049
$80,000 - $100,000/year 1074
More than $100,000/year 1126
Gender
Female 1000
Male 1042

ALL TEST-TAKERS
1020

Source: College Board (maker of the SAT), College-Board Seniors Nat'l. Report, 2001


Sorry for the long post. Found this info from the report titled above. Kind of interesting. It seems Ted was right, but in a relative way. Parental income seems to be a much stronger predictor of SAT scores than parental skin color or eye-shape. But race seems to predict scores too. Very interesting reading out there in internet land...
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juma-dude
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OT: Political Boxing Ring

Jun 9, 2008 5:35 PM
about my culture and some white man will come along and explain why only liberals can understand these sort of things...

Hey Glo.. Does that mean you can't be a liberal unless you are a white man?;)

Oh, also, one of the reasons that boys without fathers may tend to gravitate towards gangs is that is the only male role models they see.

And, reason #2, is safety/survival.

Developed at Los Alamos.. New computer that can do 1 Trillion calculations per second.

From the head of OPEC.. Reasons for the high price of oil are: 1) The value of the US dollar 2) Tension in the middle east 3) Which leads to speculation/hedging.
"Oil would be around $70 barrel without these 3 factors.
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