However, I was curious if this is only buying coins that are scams or whether buyers scamming the seller is part of the deal?

When this thread was started 5 years ago, buyers scamming sellers wasn't a problem but sellers scamming buyers was a real problem.  It is only with eBays changes over the past 4 years that buyers scamming sellers has become a problem.

Most of us are aware of the scams that are going on, such as switching coins, returning empty packages (or packages with something worthless inside), trying to get a partial refund, etc. but if you have something to add, please feel free to do so.

Could we start a list of known scammers and list the scams that they have run (or are still running) or would ebay frown on that?

PNG Dealers, paragons of professionalism and integrity...

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Collections-Lots-/525/i.html?LH_SpecificSeller=1..13thstreetjewelry%2Calhambracoin%2Callcoinswanted%2Camericanheritageminting%2CArtmcbride%2Cbartinccor%2Cbozarthnumismaticsinc%2Cbranchmintgold%2Cbrcgcoins%2Ccandcinst%2Ccnicoin%2Ccoincurinal%2Ccoingalleryofbocaraton%2Ccoingalleryofbocaraton2%2Ccoinman4u%2CCoinRaritiesOnline%2Ccoins-collectorusa%2Ccoinsplus_dt%2Ccoinspluscincy%2Ccoinwholesale%2Cdavidlawrence_auctions%2Cdennisdaray%2Cdhk1099%2Cdickosburn%2Cdillongagemetals%2Cdjwcoin%2Cdonr99%2Cdrrarecoins%2Cdrrc2012%2Cdsrc01%2CDssantiques%2CDsscoins%2Cfairtraderz%2Cfloridacoin%2CFredWeinberg%2Cglass1979%2Cgulfcoastcoinauction%2Chai25%2Chcc-coin%2Chcc-inc%2Chjb-uscoinsandcurrency%2Chjb-worldcoins%2Chnai.com%2CJeffone%2CJPBOK%2Cjuliancoin%2Ckedziekoins%2Ckenmank%2Cliberty.coin%2CLonestarnumis%2Clongislandrarecoins%2CLSRARECOINS%2Cmexicancoincompany%2Cminervaswiatek%2Cmintproducts%2Cmoderncoinmart%2Cnenworld%2Cnorthbayrarecoin%2Cnortheastcoin%2Cnortheastnumismatics%2Cocnumis%2Cogpworld%2COldpioneergregory%2Conionsavenged%2Cpinnaclerarities%2CPng283%2Crareusgold%2Crjgillio%2Crolandco824%2Csaulwww%2Csavoncoin%2Cscotsmanauctions%2Cscotsmandeals%2Csegoja%2Csheridan333%2Csilvertownelp%2Ctaquitochalupa%2Ctangibleinv%2CTimes_past%2CTreasurechestofliberty%2CU.S._coins%2Cuscoins.com%2Cverypq%2Cwayneherndon%2Cwaynemillercoins%2Cwilkisoncoins%2Cwizardcoinsupply%2Cwspdeals%2Cwsprc%2CYellowRiver%2Carmynova%2Ceerc%2Cmajestic_rarities+%2Chjb-ancientcoins+%2Cdvrcc%2Crmcoin1%2Csarasotararecoingallery%2C&_ipg=200&rt=nc

... stock photos, declarations of raw coin values right in listing titles, category spam, and pocket change wheat pennies at prices that would make Sunday newspaper coin purveyors blush... all Top Rated, natch!

This is not new but beware of raw coins. Many of the older coins were "dipped" making them look appealing. But are considered improperly cleaned by NGC. I lost several hundred dollars with those. Not worth any perceived bargain unless you are paying spot price for the silver or gold content

UP FOR BID IS A 1934 S WALKING LIBERTY HALF DOLLAR IN AU++ CONDITION IN MY OPINION, PLEASE TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT THE PICTURES AND JUDGE/GRADE THE COIN FOR YOURSELF AS THE COIN PICTURED IS THE EXACT COIN THE WINNING BIDDER WILL RECEIVE.

Definitely a "details" coin.

southernstargems wrote:

UP FOR BID IS A 1934 S WALKING LIBERTY HALF DOLLAR IN AU++ CONDITION IN MY OPINION, PLEASE TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT THE PICTURES AND JUDGE/GRADE THE COIN FOR YOURSELF AS THE COIN PICTURED IS THE EXACT COIN THE WINNING BIDDER WILL RECEIVE.

 

Definitely a "details" coin.

And of course, no returns or refunds.

He's just wishin'!  Buyer can file dispute, they'll get a refund - that won't help his "Seller Performance" evaluation any... if he doesn't want to accept a return in exchange for the refund, PayPal can arrange that for him too...

I guess having a high net worth allows one to do whatever on ebay.

I guess having a high net worth monthly eBay invoice total allows one to do whatever on ebay.

Sorry for the delay in reply.  I was on firefox and there was no links to the threads.  Guess Epay not compatible.  I am on Safari now.  Last year I purchased what turned out to be a counterfeit 1899 quarter eagle.  By the time I received notice from PCGS the 45 days had expired and Paypal wouldn't accept my claim.   Pretty certain the indians wouldn't make promised grade and bid low so decided to save money and wait for my renewed PCGS membership and send them in for the $8 handling fee.  Had I sent them back to Mike at GSC, he would have just relisted as BU again and duped somebody else.  I am certain I could return these now, but he wouldn't pay me for my cost to have them holdered.  I will trade these out and buy off of HA as I have been recently.  No problems there.  Bill Fivaz is a lifetime member of our local coin club and from him I have learned that virtually every gold coin minted has been copied now.  Some of the Iranian gold eagles are better made than our original US mint versions.  My advice to newbies after many years of reliance on Ebay, Ebid, and other online auctions, either buy with personal inspection or purchase the holdered version by top grading companies or prepare to be stung.  It is too easy to chemically clean a coin or spray over hairlines and post "fantastic" pictures and amass a crowd of believers.  Without felony conviction worries, even if all coins keep getting returned, if buyers continue to voluntarily agree to sellers request to not give bad feedback, whats to worry and just make money on the float.  I would be willing to bet GSC has resold some coins double digit times and literally have no cost basis in their inventory.

While I didn't check out all of the auctions (only the first 200), I did note that every single one of them accepted returns within 14 days.

Yeah, I saw some over-priced junk, but mostly I saw stuff in the realm of acceptability.

In any group, you're going to find sellers with more and less ethical business models, but at least PNG members must comply with arbitration of disputes if they wish to retain their status.

The violations of eBay rules concern me less because, as we all know, many of eBay's rules make little or no sense and may change arbitrarily. Further, eBay's conception of numismatics seems a tad lacking.

Of course, I'm prejudiced because almost every dealer I know and respect is PNG. On the other hand, one of the most annoying vest-pocket dealers I know is, also, as is a B&M dealer with flexible ethics. None the less, if you're dissatisfied with a PNG dealer, you have a higher authority to complain to who will actually listen and take action.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that NO PNG dealers were paragons of professionalism and integrity.  However some of that stuff is pretty iffy, and it certainly doesn't meet what I recall reading in their ethics code... but that's between PNG and their membership.

My post wasn't really targeted at PNG as much as it was at eBay anyhow, although I probably failed to make that clear.  So I will now. 

eBay has given PNG dealers favorable search ranking and special landing pages and promotional space (and probably deals on fees too) as part of their new "partnership".  I'm not really a fan of this because it isn't a level playing field (admittedly a concept eBay abandonded several years ago).  That's up to them though, I suppose.  But promoting PNG dealers as "better" (for whatever reason) would sit a lot better if they really did meet a higher standard (or, at least the basic eBay standards!). 

Not all of the eBay rules are ridiculous or change arbitrarily.  There are category rules, and keyword spam rules, they have existed a lot longer than I've been here, and they exist for a good reason.  I don't know if the stating values rule for raw coins is a good one or not, but the listings I saw were the worst of the worst in terms of scammy practices and rules violations... selling mystery lots of raw coins, assigning them a value, putting that in the title no less, and then listing it with a stock photo of a couple of row boxes... REALLY? 

All this PNG stuff was sold with eBay claims of increasing buyer trust and conficence, professionalism, integrity, and improving the "buying experience".  If eBay's conception of numismatics was lacking, this was supposed to help address some of that.  So now PNG is telling eBay how to deal with certified coins, and restricting raw coin listings, while PNG dealers spam up categories, violate the listing rules, and sell single panels of Lincoln Memorial circ.s ripped from Whitman folders?  For Five Bucks!?!? 

So I guess the seller decided to crack it out?

Stolen photo... doesn't have it, never did.  PayPal better be hoping they've got him on 21 day hold!

Sellers reply:

Hello I put my coin on my scanner on scanned and put it on my listing. so yes this coin is mine. But i will be taking more picture and adding them on here so everyone will feel more secured on bidding. Thanks

Check out his 1909S VDB listing, pirated pics for sure.

Re. Post #3660,

That seller has been discussed here many times before concerning their (over)grading skills.