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Last Post Nov 7, 2009 7:38 AM by: *_dash_*
Replies: 9
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nature_nutz
Posts: 10,941

Computer freezing UP; Can't do anything for 30 minutes+

Nov 5, 2009 9:35 PM
So badly that I have to shut it down. Seems to happen mostly when composing Outlook Express email.

When this happens the cursor flickers soooooo fast that I can barely see it when it's positioned over the frame of OE where you type the message, but it then normal over the desktop. IF that means anything.

While the computer is frozen, I can't do anything but x-out of windows I have up. I lose my email-in-progress and have to start over. I have twice waited for 30 minutes to see if whatever is going on would end; at that point I just turned off the computer.

Losing my emails is particularly aggravating right now because I'm working on some family genealogy stuff. :(

Both times when it was that bad, I checked what processes were running. The only one that was showing a CPU number greater than 00, was msimn.exe, and that went from 95 - 99 while I watched.

This last time there were 52 processes, CPU usage was 100%, and "commit charge:" said 527M/26. Have no idea what that is.

Before the two most recent complete freezes, the computer would sometimes sound like a small jet airplane on takeoff, but that'd maybe last a minute or two at most, and I could then continue with what I was doing.

About 2 months ago I called Embarqmail to report page hangups and speed issues that were reminiscent of dialup. I also had some funny ping test results and they said they couldn't see a problem, except... They had me remove AVG free antivirus and something else, and then load their Embarq Online Security. When the big freeze happens I can't find a way to turn the Embarq Online Security OFF to see if that stops the freeze.

If it helps... This is a HP Compaq Slim tower business computer, given to me when my daughter's work place upgraded. It has a 40 GB hard drive, and I upgraded the RAM by installing two 1024 mb chips. Windows XP Pro, IE8... I keep up-to-date with Microsoft fixes, have Ad-Aware & Spybot installed and run them every week or so, did the same with AVG and now with the Embarq antivirus.

Before I got this computer 3/08, the one I had the previous 10 years was a computer with less than 10 whatevers hard drive (MBs??), and just 128 meg RAM. So I got used to cleaning cache, hist, temp, cookies, etc., folders and still do that frequently during the day.

I don't know what else to report that would help. Thanks for reading and any suggestions. It is greatly appreciated!!

P.S. From now on I'm gonna write AND save all my OE emails first in wordpad just-in-case, but I'd still like to "fix" this, whatever it is. :)

.
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thesilvercygnet.va
Posts: 11,693
(1 of 9)

Re: Computer freezing UP; Can't do anything for 30 minutes+

Nov 5, 2009 9:49 PM
So badly that I have to shut it down. Seems to happen mostly when composing Outlook Express email.

When this happens the cursor flickers soooooo fast that I can barely see it when it's positioned over the frame of OE where you type the message, but it then normal over the desktop. IF that means anything.

While the computer is frozen, I can't do anything but x-out of windows I have up. I lose my email-in-progress and have to start over. I have twice waited for 30 minutes to see if whatever is going on would end; at that point I just turned off the computer.

Losing my emails is particularly aggravating right now because I'm working on some family genealogy stuff. :(

Both times when it was that bad, I checked what processes were running. The only one that was showing a CPU number greater than 00, was msimn.exe, and that went from 95 - 99 while I watched.

This last time there were 52 processes, CPU usage was 100%, and "commit charge:" said 527M/26. Have no idea what that is.

Before the two most recent complete freezes, the computer would sometimes sound like a small jet airplane on takeoff, but that'd maybe last a minute or two at most, and I could then continue with what I was doing.

About 2 months ago I called Embarqmail to report page hangups and speed issues that were reminiscent of dialup. I also had some funny ping test results and they said they couldn't see a problem, except... They had me remove AVG free antivirus and something else, and then load their Embarq Online Security. When the big freeze happens I can't find a way to turn the Embarq Online Security OFF to see if that stops the freeze.

If it helps... This is a HP Compaq Slim tower business computer, given to me when my daughter's work place upgraded. It has a 40 GB hard drive, and I upgraded the RAM by installing two 1024 mb chips. Windows XP Pro, IE8... I keep up-to-date with Microsoft fixes, have Ad-Aware & Spybot installed and run them every week or so, did the same with AVG and now with the Embarq antivirus.

Before I got this computer 3/08, the one I had the previous 10 years was a computer with less than 10 whatevers hard drive (MBs??), and just 128 meg RAM. So I got used to cleaning cache, hist, temp, cookies, etc., folders and still do that frequently during the day.

I don't know what else to report that would help. Thanks for reading and any suggestions. It is greatly appreciated!!

P.S. From now on I'm gonna write AND save all my OE emails first in wordpad just-in-case, but I'd still like to "fix" this, whatever it is. :)

.


Have you tried System Restore?
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rogespeed
Posts: 1,664
(2 of 9)

Re: Computer freezing UP; Can't do anything for 30 minutes+

Nov 6, 2009 1:24 AM
Hi - I suggest first try starting to the windows desktop then if using a usb connected mouse , unplug it (is hot swapable) and then reconnect the mouse into another usb port to reinitialize
This might reconfigure and resolve the immediate mouse issue

Do likewise with a usb keyboard if installed.

Then restart into safe mode and determine whether issues manifest - if not , does strongly indicate issue is related to start-up application programs or parasites that start during normal boot-up, most likely a virus


but in my opinion, as this computer is used, it is best to completely reinstall Windows using the oem restore set
If not included in the transfer of ownership, these can be purchased directly from HP at modest cost (if the only method to reinstall Windows - check the support site)
(2 cd set - vendor restore + HP oem Windows)
But first register yourself as the current legal owner with HP if provided via the support site
(telephone support calling up ownership records as per computer serial number: oh yer sure, you work for Tyrell corp ?)

Link

You will need to save all valued non-system files such as research record files and emails and browser favorites etc - i recommend doing so anyhow even if not reinstalling Windows.
Best in current circumstances try first in safe mode (F8 menu at computer power up)

Do not reinstall Windows unless absolutely confirmed that all valued personal files are saved to removable storage

Reinstalling Windows eliminates:
resident parasites
residual previously registered utilities
uninstalled expired utilities
Hidden files
Accumulated system file errors
system issues from removed devices
Copious internet related history and browser support records and trace support cookies
eliminates serious registry file errors
Unwanted private files

reinstalling Windows in HP computers is quite a simple process

Also at least first reinstall the same security as per your old computer if that combination has worked well for you
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*_dash_*
Posts: 153
(3 of 9)

Re: Computer freezing UP; Can't do anything for 30 minutes+

Nov 6, 2009 8:02 AM
nature_nutz:
"Both times when it was that bad, I checked what processes were running. The only one that was showing a CPU number greater than 00, was msimn.exe, and that went from 95 - 99 while I watched."


msimn.exe is the Outlook Express executable. So what's happening is for some reason something's gone wrong and Outlook Express is keeping your CPU completely busy. I'd be willing to bet one of the dbx files Outlook Express uses to store your mail has become corrupted. If the problem only occurs while using OE then your mouse and keyboard won't be the problem... what's happening with the mouse is just a symptom.
There's info here Link and here Link on how to back up your Outlook Express mail and how to find the DBX folders it uses for storage etc.

If it were me, I'd have a read of those and then you should be able to work out how to navigate to the OE store folder with Windows Explorer. While you're there, with OE closed, move the entire contents of that folder to a safe place, then restart OE and it'll create fresh new versions of those files. Use OE for a bit to see if the problem returns. If it doesn't you had corrupt folders. You could then try using OE's import function to import the mail from your old folders to get your existing mail back.

You could also try deleting the drafts folder only. When you're composing mail OE saves a copy of it to that folder... I hope I'm remembering correctly as I haven't used OE in years. If I am remembering that right and the problem only happens while you're composing an email then maybe the drafts dbx folder is the corrupt one.

"This last time there were 52 processes, CPU usage was 100%, and "commit charge:" said 527M/26. Have no idea what that is."

The commit charge is to do with the Windows paging file (a file used for swapping memory around) it's nothing to worry about.

"Before the two most recent complete freezes, the computer would sometimes sound like a small jet airplane on takeoff, but that'd maybe last a minute or two at most, and I could then continue with what I was doing."

It sounds like the motherboard varies the speed of the CPU fan according to temperature. High CPU usage = high CPU temperature = CPU fan whizzing around very fast = jet aeroplane in your PC. ;)

Personally I'd be having a crack at looking at the simple fixes before re-installing Windows. Doing so could be a bit like demolishing your house and building a new one because there's a couple of squeaky doors.

In the mean time you could also try using something other than OE. Thunderbird would be the logical choice as it feels much like OE to use, it's much better, and it'll import all your OE account settings and mail etc for you when it installs so you can just continue on with it from where you left off with OE. Link

There are of course other possibilities besides a corrupt dbx file. Your antivirus software could be interfering with OE or there's some other software conflict going on, but I wouldn't assume the problem's got to be a virus unless you've got a reason to think you may have one.
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seadog
Posts: 87
(4 of 9)

Re: Computer freezing UP; Can't do anything for 30 minutes+

Nov 6, 2009 9:08 AM
It sounds to me that its an over heating problem. I would check all the fans in the computer to make sure they are working.
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black*max
Posts: 13,516
(5 of 9)

Re: Computer freezing UP; Can't do anything for 30 minutes+

Nov 6, 2009 10:02 AM
If it's a file problem why would you have to shut it down for 30 Min.?
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nature_nutz
Posts: 10,941
(6 of 9)

Re: Computer freezing UP; Can't do anything for 30 minutes+

Nov 6, 2009 10:36 AM
I appreciate ALL the suggestions, thanks!! I'm going to print them out and read them s-l-o-w-l-y as I am not very computer literate, to be sure I'm understanding what each one involves, before taking any action!

"If it's a file problem why would you have to shut it down for 30 Min.?" I shut the computer down twice in the past week, after waiting to see if it was going to FINISH whatever it was doing. Then I waited 5 minutes before turning it back on.

We didn't get a home PC until Christmas '97, but before that at work the worst thing you could do was to shut the computer down by pushing the "off" button. Maybe it's no longer such a big deal, but it still makes me nervous. So I hit the ctrl-alt-del twice but it took a long time, it seemed, before it worked.

Also, the business the computer came from works closely with PennDot and thus Homeland Security. The hard drive was wiped clean, and we were told it would be blank? when I got it, however, "they" downloaded Win XP pro for us, which was very nice! Except...

We had gone out and bought a brand new copy of XP Home to be ready, even opened the package to start reading the stuff, so we couldn't return it, then the computer came with an operating system already installed.

The computer is already registered to me at HP, and I've never had a problem updating at Microsoft. The whatever-it's-called (certificate, ID #??) is valid, though I don't have a program disc.

Thanks AGAIN!! :)
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lil*neko
Posts: 236
(7 of 9)

Re: Computer freezing UP; Can't do anything for 30 minutes+

Nov 6, 2009 11:37 AM
OP -

Have you ever dumped all the cookies/history/temp files on the system and run a defrag? If not I'd venture to say that's your answer to a very slow machine.

Download and install CCleaner (get it from ccleaner dot com). When you go to install uncheck the first and last boxes you'll see in one of the dialogs that pop up. The top one is for a shortcut on your desktop (they app should be listed in your Start Menu anyway) and the last one is to install the Yahoo Toolbar (which you do NOT want).

Run it until it comes up clean and then clean the Registry with it (first two top options when the little split screen window comes up). Delete - do not back up - anything it finds. Once it comes up clean run a defrag and see if that makes a difference.

You may have a few processes running but I really think the system is loaded with unncessary files and folders that are clogging you up.

I only use one utility on any of my computers and that's CCleaner. Easy, fast and makes for a "smiling PC"! B-)

.
..
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*_dash_*
Posts: 153
(8 of 9)

Re: Computer freezing UP; Can't do anything for 30 minutes+

Nov 6, 2009 3:13 PM
nature_nutz
"We didn't get a home PC until Christmas '97, but before that at work the worst thing you could do was to shut the computer down by pushing the "off" button. Maybe it's no longer such a big deal, but it still makes me nervous. So I hit the ctrl-alt-del twice but it took a long time, it seemed, before it worked."


The main reason for shutting down the PC the correct way is to allow any running programs to close "correctly" because back in the dark ages Windows used the FAT32 file system. Shutting down the PC incorrectly could easily cause errors which is why on the next boot you'd often see Windows wanting to check the hard drive. These days Windows uses the NTFS file system and it's a lot more robust. Which is why if you shut a PC down incorrectly these days Windows doesn't get all bothered about checking the disc. So no, using the power switch isn't the big deal it used to be.

By the way, defragging your hard drive now and then is a good idea, and a cleanup using a utility like CCleaner probably can't hurt, but it's very unlikely to make your PC run any quicker and it's certainly not going to fix a problem with a particular program keeping your CPU busy for no apparent reason. A program like CCleaner isn't really necessary. You can do all the main cleaning yourself by cleaning out your temporary internet files using your browser's option for doing so, and you can clean your drive by using XP's own disc cleanup utility. Cleaning the registry (which CCleaner also does) will pretty much achieve nothing. Unless you're running very low on disc space "unnecessary" files on your hard drive can't slow your computer down enough for a mere mortal to notice, because that's contrary to how hard drives work. If a file is needed your hard drive looks up where it's stored and goes straight to it so in terms of performance the number of files doesn't really effect it. It'd be like storing a bunch of MP3s and photos on your hard drive and then expecting your PC to run quicker if you delete them. They're not necessary either, at least in terms of your PC functioning, but why would deleting them make your PC run faster? Cleaning out temporary internet files can help a little as the browser is limited to the amount of them it'll store but it's very unlikely to have anything to do with your current problem.

The problem, as you discovered and described here, relates to a single problematic program and high CPU usage. It's rare to have someone ask about an issue here and actually be able to give such a clear indication as to the cause, yet still the "fix everything" solution is "clean out your temp files", "run CCleaner" or "reinstall Windows"..... sigh.

If you're going to keep using OE there is one maintenance routine that might help, and running it now may fix a corrupt dbx file..... or it may mess it up completely so you'd want to back up your OE files or save your emails individually to your hard drive before trying it this time. From OE's File menu, if you select Folders/Compact All Folders (I think) OE will cleanup your dbx files. The way they work is that when you delete an email it doesn't actually get deleted from the dbx file, it just gets "marked" as deleted. So over time your dbx files grow larger and larger and the chances of them becoming corrupted increases.... if I recall correctly there was, and may still be, a known issue with OE's dbx files becoming corrupted if they were allowed to grow to a certain size. Compacting you OE files removes all the junk and shrinks them back down to the appropriate size.
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*_dash_*
Posts: 153
(9 of 9)

Re: Computer freezing UP; Can't do anything for 30 minutes+

Nov 7, 2009 7:38 AM
nature_nutz:
"Before I got this computer 3/08, the one I had the previous 10 years was a computer with less than 10 whatevers hard drive (MBs??), and just 128 meg RAM. So I got used to cleaning cache, hist, temp, cookies, etc., folders and still do that frequently during the day."

lil*neko:
Have you ever dumped all the cookies/history/temp files on the system and run a defrag? If not I'd venture to say that's your answer to a very slow machine.....
.....You may have a few processes running but I really think the system is loaded with unncessary files and folders that are clogging you up.


I must say lil*neko.... you never fail to entertain. ;)
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