OK break is over
well, well, well, a pencil pusher
...with all the treatments out there every stone should be scrutinized with the utmost care and diligence to obtain a proper ID of those treatments...rushing through and being sloppy with a 5 minute look over is unprofessional at best...
-not so fast Darren, you are judging all professionals, that is called stereo typing-
It's your butt in a sling if you screw up...whatever makes you comfortable.
+and I see you are agitated... live and learn.
two months is excessive but five is too quick for a trained and educated professional.
-That is your sole opinion has nothing to do with a group or majority, so in your professional opinion a professional appraiser needs to take 20 minutes to examine a solitaire diamond ring, Ok, I say; in time, he can do it in five minutes and I am a living proof- Once again...you are in the minority...to rush through a process that entails so many things that can be missed is foolish...but hey...your the expert without training.
+20 minutes and You cannot detect HPHT, I can Mr. professional.
You are a liar
Because by receiving GIA education a jeweler can be trusted with some standards. GIA education gives a minimum knowledge for any professional in our industry. Very good...GIA GG course is a starting point...agreed.
-No sweat, ma man-
Some jewelers don’t need GIA education because they are born into this industry and are comfortable with said standards and are in exception. That is a dangerous statement...being "comfortable" and "born into the industry" does not indicate a person knows what they are doing...the only way to insure that an appraisal is done properly is to obtain training...my father was an engineer and so was his father...i was born into an engineering family...i spent much time helping in the field of engineering but i am not an engineer nor do i have the ability to engineer something.
-lets go through this for a minute, dear Darren, my father was a jeweler and so was his father and all my uncles(Watch makers/jewelers) my brother is a jeweler. So I was born into jeweler family... I spent much, way too much time helping my dad in his daily chores but my education is in engineering.ok Environmental engineering to be exact. I have passed my EIT and PE board exams. I don’t think it is dangerous for me to design a water treatment plan... do you?- In jewelry mr. "i have no appraisal training but i can appraise a solitaire including any treatments and identify a synthetic diamond from natural in 5 minutes"
+ So what is the problem You are divorced now and kind of make you feel good to argue. Hey, it is cheaper than that ... shrink.
You can be related to and work with the finest jewelry store owners and the most productives salespeople in the industry but an appraiser and G.G. do you not make. I have seen appraisals from folks like yourself
+ Have you really, and an example... we test that in the trenches
who like to state how their family is "in the business",
+Don’t drink, You either dreaming or oh, watching a move
and usually they have been touting false info for most of those years without a clue.
+And you know everything... this is the jewelry world, deal with it.
Value determined were wrong and info was either unclear or incomplete.
+I am sorry it wasn’t one of mine.
you said nothing of the laws of appraising for insurance because you do not know what can and can't be stated or what you as the appraiser (wanna be) are responsible for...once again it's you butt in a sling.
+ Actually been ready to testify against GIA, your beloved sanctuary. Can you control yourself or not?
After all, we are talking about a six months training. Six months of intense study of gemstones, treatments, grading, and identification...observing hundreds of gemstones over and over...grading diamonds over and over...then passing the twenty stone exam where you cannot incorrectly identify or even write incorrectly random gemstones as well as the written exam. They give you five chances to pass...most have to take it more than once
- If one didn’t pass first time, would that make him a bad jeweler?? or if you passed on first time, are you any better GG?- Did i say they need to pass the first time or they are a bad jeweler or G.G.? you are missing the point...what we do is not easy and requires training...it's not aquired by osmosis because of whom you were born to.
+Oh, I see the thing which burns you. get a life. and your own please.
and if you don't you have to retake courses again...do not minimize our profession(gemologists).
-Gemologist without his equipment is a professional appraiser. Try it some times-Once again you have no idea what you are talking about...a gg means you have training to identify and grade gemstones...
+with the proper equipment and not necessary field oriented.
you have no idea how to value based on market conditions and valuation law and theory...you are dangerous if you are doing this.
+Oh and you know, commended by god and hand delivered by Mr. Trucker. OOOW here comes the storm. You are so much in the books, it is unreal.
All I hear is words by people like you dictating how we(in your words; Zombies called jewelers) got to conduct our business. We are here and we make money, live and bring about children into this world.-If you make mocking comment, I would not continue, Why,; beacuse this is beyond me, is about that little mom and pop jewelry store middle of nowhere-
A “ professional” jeweler handed a solitaire in thirty seconds should, on 80-20 chance, say if the stone is diamond or not. If in doubt, another 30 seconds for loupe inspection. Total of one minute to identify real or fake. Then this “professional” jeweler has four minutes for color, clarity and a simple acid test for the gold. I say that would be sufficient amount of time. The OP’s question is on a single stone diamond ring. Is that stone HPHT
+You wouldn’t know, would you...
I would with time testing/close observation...i don't just hold the stone to my ear and guess like some folks.
treated, fracture filled, synthetic or natural, how well is the stone cut...what grade would you give the cut quality...
-First sixty seconds- Just scary What are the visual indicators for HPHT?
+ That piece of information is not cheap sir. Yep, scary; isn’t it.
pitiful, scary and comical!
how many directions do you measure to accurately document the diameter...what is the estimated depth of a mounted stone when you cannot get to the culet...do you plot the stone...etc.
+Four minutes. Said I am an engineer. Ask your dad these questions before you come to the class.
-Last four minutes, By the way, Stuller is over priced-See now your just being silly with the stuller comment... every staement of time your quoting just proves how inept you really are and how little you know of what you speak...get some training.
+I hear Stuller is offering classes instructed by GIA staff. You are a Company guy aren’t you? Never handled a flex shaft, have you? jewelry is an art, I say; you need to do it to appreciate it.
I stepped on an artists toes...oops...i'm sure you make beautiful pieces.
Is setting a stuller setting or signed by Tiffany...if it is a signed piece is it authentic? what is the method of manufacture...cast...die struck...hand made...combination of both? What is the quality of the settings construction?
Oh, you are welcome to take twenty minutes to do the same Thanks!!
-You are welcome, Darren-
but two months is stretching it. True And there is no training as good as experience in art of appraising. What kind of experience?
-Take a guess-
You mean that say a jewelry store owner or salesman with say 20 or 30 years experience has the knowledge and ability to appraise jewelry?
-Salesman’s job is to sell but owners do have knowledge to their degree of ....-Idiocy???
+No, Knowledge. Watch your manners. You are so predictable, it is ironic.
No answers just bad one-liners
What about Insurance or IRS laws pertaining to appraising...if we are just talking about an insurance appraisal to replace then why does every appraisal i see from an untrained jewelry store owner or salesman have
-See, now, you should have specified the untrained at the beginning of the paragraph- Experience per say is not training to appraise
+But that is the first thing a judge will ask you, I was told and experienced.
You would have NO credibility in a court of law.
a useless disclaimer at the bottom stating that they are not liable for any actions taken as a result of this appraisal?
-They are afraid of lawyers. In California, 3 out of 10 adults have a law degree of some sort- Once again you miss the point...the disclaimer is bogus and offers NO protection when you screw up.
+Well, consult an attorney. That is exactly what I am going to say in court ”Your honor; this is my opinion” and it worked.
You are liable...thats bad legal advice folks.
These folks don't even know enough to figure out that they ARE responsible to prove in a court of law if asked how they came to that value conclusion.
+That is what you think. Come down form that ivory tower.
They don't understand markets and how they can't just keystone a rap sheet to figure out replacement.
-Aha, why not? rap is driving the diamond industry!!?-LMAO!!!! You really have no clue!!
+But people like you created the Rap and now, De Beers has a store in Beverly Hills and you want to change the rules.
I hear statements like that all day long "he's been in the business for thirty years so he knows what he's doing" well thats usually a load of poop
-Watch your manners, sir-
and the valuation is three lines of useless info, totally devoid of a proper description that will make the client whole if the item needs to be replaced. The combination of training and experience is great but one or the other alone is dangerous
-Ask your dad about EIT and PE exam, he will tell you-
Not all good jewelers are members of organizations. Some play solo.
VERY true...i agree that all the letters after a name do not make a good GG or appraiser or anything...same with doctors or any profession...but to not have the tools to properly evaluate and then put a value to jewelry is what creates higher insurance premiums for all of us or jewelers being sued into oblivion because they have no formal appraisal training.
-I say; this statement is a loop-
+The loop is still going round and round
Furthermore , be careful Darren
“Lot of imposters...lot of people calling themselves "GIA certified" but GIA certifies nothing...”
“GIA does NOT appraise...they create a grading report...they do not "certify" gemstones. They give an opinion of quality.”
few years ago GIA, under new management(Mr. Boyajian), gave out god knows how many, bad certificates for two carat and above diamonds. Sounds like EGL from day one
+ At least They don’t call themselves industry leaders
Yes they do...ever seen a egl/ugs appraisal...three grades off usually.
These certificates have deliberately bumped up two or more shades in color for said diamonds. because of some law breaking graders who were proptly fired for taking bribes
+Bad guys in heaven
Frankly, I don’t trust GIA certificates( that is what the documents are called) NO...they are grading reports...the misnomer made up by industry folks like you is "certs" anymore.
+These bad certificated are floating around the market. Any signs of recall?
Certificate;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate
So you are not part of this industry but you feed from it. There is a name for that creature.
Oh, GIA, wild and crazy wasted youth. I admit; GIA has the most beautiful girls our industry can offer. Where?
Best of luck to you...with this wealth of knowledge you claim and that has been displayed here...your gonna need it.
+Yes, I do 1mil annually, and I am happy. Like to do more. Would you help me, please?
Thank you for the support guys but none needed. I am a big boy. Been pushed around by people like Darren all my life. See, they have nothing to offer but their bigotry.
Bigotry? I am a bigot of untrained jewelry owners and sales people trying to appraise without having a clue.
OK, enough with the introductions. This thing is taking too much of my time. So where are you with all that education? I know somewhere high, break it to me gently.
adove2000 (Private ) View Listings | Report Jul-18-07 00:25 PDT 104 of 112
Benchwork, casting, design, and diamond setting is TRADE SCHOOL. Adult ed would be for something like a GED...
You understand the difference, right ?
Since you have displayed what you think is my entire background,
why not post your own? Do you have one?
Have a great one!
Darren
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