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Diamonds Category Changes

(1 of 104)
Diamonds Category Changes
May 23, 2007 07:47 AM
Hi - We’ve been working with the Trust & Safety team to respond to feedback from Buyers and Sellers about the various kinds of diamonds listed in Diamond Jewelry. This summer we’re planning to divide diamonds into three types: - Natural: mined diamonds that have not been enhanced for color or clarity - Enhanced: mined diamonds whose color or clarity have been augmented - Man-made: diamonds created in a lab To view the proposed Jewelry structure, please click here. Please look through our proposed changes and provide us with feedback on the boards through 5/30/07. Our team will be reading and responding to threads during that time. We feel the diamond division will allow Buyers to shop with increased confidence and give Sellers a better range of categories to list their items. Trust & Safety will update the Jewelry Policy this summer to accompany the category changes, requiring sellers to properly categorize their Diamond Jewelry. Regards, eBay Classification Team
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Diamonds Category Changes

(103 Replies / 12,920 Views)
Diamonds Category Changes
May 23, 2007 07:47 AM
Hi - We’ve been working with the Trust & Safety team to respond to feedback from Buyers and Sellers about the various kinds of diamonds listed in Diamond Jewelry. This summer we’re planning to divide diamonds into three types: - Natural: mined diamonds that have not been enhanced for color or clarity - Enhanced: mined diamonds whose color or clarity have been augmented - Man-made: diamonds created in a lab To view the proposed Jewelry structure, please click here. Please look through our proposed changes and provide us with feedback on the boards through 5/30/07. Our team will be reading and responding to threads during that time. We feel the diamond division will allow Buyers to shop with increased confidence and give Sellers a better range of categories to list their items. Trust & Safety will update the Jewelry Policy this summer to accompany the category changes, requiring sellers to properly categorize their Diamond Jewelry. Regards, eBay Classification Team
Page: 2 of 5
Last Post
by yprhke2 (0) View Listings
(24 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
May 30, 2007 07:18 PM
Thanks again everyone for the input and information. For the current diamond effort we'll go with the names
Natural
Enhanced Natural
Synthetic (Lab-grown)
and separate out Enhanced Natural and Synthetic in the few cases where we'd put them together.

We hope to do a review of the Jewelry structure in the next few months and will try then to addess other points raised in this thread. Meanwhile you can reach us at taxonomy@ebay.com.
Regards,
Alice
(25 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
May 30, 2007 09:30 PM
Hi Alice, Please try to include a sub-cat for Simulant
(imitation) also. They are the man-made materials which
do NOT poses the same physical, chemical, and optical
proterties as the natural stone, unlike synthetics which
DO have virtually the same physical, chemical, and optical
proterties as their natural counterpart. Thank you for
your efforts to better this situation.





(26 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
May 31, 2007 08:22 AM
"diamond gemstone" and "created diamond" doesnt work unless it's actually diamond material...saw those two recently.
(27 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
May 31, 2007 01:48 PM
We were assuming that Simulants was covered by the existing Cubic Zirconia categories. Is that enough?
(28 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
May 31, 2007 06:47 PM
I don't want to speak for adove, but the problem with the existing CZ category is that a huge amount of stuff that should be there is listed instead in the various gemstone categories, e.g., if it is red CZ, you'll find it as Ruby or "synthetic Ruby"; if it is colorless CZ, then Diamond or "Lab Created Diamond"; if green CZ, then Emerald or "Man-made Emerald"; etc., etc. - all of which are deceptive claims and in the wrong categories.

Plus, there are simulants besides CZ (not to mention the CZ which manufacturers are claiming to be something else).

click for Guides



Jewelry and Gemstone Identification Room

(29 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Jun 1, 2007 12:32 AM
Correct A77. It is a huge problem. By removing the third element
of this equation (Simulant), a seller may opt to "not see"
the option to select CZ as the sub-category. Yes, there
is a problem when the material being listing is something
other than cubic zirconia (CZ). What looks like one gemstone,
may be: CZ, glass, or a different (less costly) natural
stone (like white topaz, used as a simulant for diamond).
Some sellers will seek out whatever loop-hole is available.

The only way (I can think of) to pin down the true nature of the
material, is to offer sellers 3 choices: Natural, Synthetic, Simulant.
(Those 3 words have very specific legal usage regarding jewelry sales.)


The 1st three (below) are often used incorrectly, either
due to lack of knowledge, or deceptive practices.

"laboratory-grown": same optical, physical, and chemical
properties as the stone named.

"laboratory-created": same optical, physical, and chemical
properties as the stone named.

"[manufacturer name]-created": same optical, physical, and chemical
properties as the stone named.

"synthetic": same optical, physical, and chemical
properties as the stone named.


"Synthetic" is more concrete IMO. The other 3 (above) allow
the "creative" seller an "out" in their minds, because they
say the CZ, glass, or whatever, was made in a lab, therefore
they made an innocent mistake and listed incorrectly...
yada, yada, yada.


"imitation": NOT the same optical, physical, and chemical
properties as the stone named.

"simulated": NOT the same optical, physical, and chemical
properties as the stone named.


FTC Guidelines for Jewelry, Precious Metals, and Pewter Industries:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/jewel-gd.htm

EXCERTPS:

§ 23.11 Definition and misuse of the word "diamond."...
Note 2 to paragraph (c): Additional guidance about imitation and
laboratory-created diamond representations and misuse of words "gem,"
"real," "genuine," "natural," etc., are set forth in § 23.23, 23.24, and 23.25.

§ 23.23 Misuse of the words "ruby," "sapphire," "emerald," "topaz," "stone,"
"birthstone," "gemstone," etc.
(a) It is unfair or deceptive to use the unqualified words "ruby,"
"sapphire," "emerald," "topaz," or the name of any other precious or
semi-precious stone to describe any product that is not in fact a natural
stone of the type described.
(b) It is unfair or deceptive to use the word "ruby," "sapphire," "emerald,"
"topaz," or the name of any other precious or semi-precious stone, or the
word "stone," "birthstone," "gemstone,'' or similar term to describe a
laboratory-grown, laboratory-created, [manufacturer name]-created,
synthetic, imitation, or simulated stone, unless such word or name is
immediately preceded with equal conspicuousness by the word
"laboratory-grown," "laboratory-created," "[manufacturer name]-created,"
"synthetic," or by the word "imitation" or "simulated," so as to disclose
clearly the nature of the product and the fact it is not a natural gemstone.
Note to paragraph (b): The use of the word "faux" to describe a
laboratory-created or imitation stone is not an adequate disclosure that the
stone is not natural.
(c) It is unfair or deceptive to use the word "laboratory-grown,"
"laboratory-created," "[manufacturer name]-created," or "synthetic" with the
name of any natural stone to describe any industry product unless such
industry product has essentially the same optical, physical, and chemical
properties as the stone named.


Sorry this is so long winded. :(





(30 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Jun 1, 2007 10:52 AM
Got it re the CZ issue (thanks for your patience adove200 and astynax77!). For July, we'll make the Natural, Natural Enhanced and Synthetic breakout under "Diamond" ie deal with the subset that has the true optical, physical and chemical properties. Then we'll address the CZ and simulants in later changes. Adding "Simulants" below Diamond whilst leaving "Cubic Zirconium" is going to be confusing, and addressing the CZ/Simulants issue for all of diamonds, rubies etc is more than we can do for July change deadline.
(31 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Jun 1, 2007 08:56 PM
Alice.. It does not matter.

Changes to categories that were already in place (& did not work) will not make scammers list in compliance.

The emphasis should be on *enforcement* of existing rules/policies.

Otherwise, we are merely being handed a whole bunch of NEW categories to peruse & Report under... To what end?

Creating new categories is NOT going to change the listing practices of folks hell-bent on piggybacking their listings in Genuine/Natural categories to fool people.

Sorry.

It's swapping 1 headache for another. "Different" won't make it better.
:(
itzFray/orkiPay
25% Club
What's your pleasure?



*Ow.*
Quit it.
-(;o)~


itzFray/orkiPay Band Name of The Week: Grand Fiasco (Big Band) *Ow.* Quit it. -(;o)~

(32 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Jun 3, 2007 10:52 AM
Just to illustrate... Search results for DIAMOND under the Jewelry/Watches category, (sorted lowest price first, with 200 items per page), using the following search string in an attempt to weed-out imitations: diamond -cz -zirconia -fake -simulated -simulant -man-made -lab -created -imitation returned over 82,800 "diamond" items. That's 415 pages at 200 items per page, of "diamonds". Sorting by Lowest Price First, (200 per page) on page 130, we are still looking at $1 items with titles claiming to be diamond and gold jewelry. Of course, most people will do a standard search instead of searching by lowest price first, but this example shows how many simulants and base metal items they must wade through, even using the search string qualifiers (above), and most people will not know to enter all those qualifiers, so they will see even more unwanted items in their results. The same type of search results display for: RUBY, SAPPHIRE, EMERALD, and others.





(33 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Jun 3, 2007 10:59 AM
I agree that enforcement is a primary issue, but enforcement may not be possible if the terminology is not specific enough to show intent to defraud.





(34 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Jun 6, 2007 01:33 AM
There is plenty of deception & terminology that could show "intent to defraud" out there right now...

& there will be as much (if not MORE) w/ additional categories to split up the fraudsters so they fly under the radar. They are being handled MORE opportunities & venues, not LESS.. & THEY don't care.. They just show up w/ alternate IDs.

Go spend a week out of Jewelry, & on T&S, & learn how it's done, before trying to fix something that cannot be held together w/ a Band-Aid.
itzFray/orkiPay
25% Club
What's your pleasure?



*Ow.*
Quit it.
-(;o)~


itzFray/orkiPay Band Name of The Week: Grand Fiasco (Big Band) *Ow.* Quit it. -(;o)~

(35 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Jun 6, 2007 09:45 AM
So, aside from enforcement which is a given, how would you
suggest Jewelry listing/search/browse be improved, Porki?





(36 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Jun 7, 2007 10:13 PM
Nay, Dove.... *Enforcement* is PARAMOUNT. There will be abuse of listing categories, as now, no matter what, w/o strict enforcement - it's that simple... Speaking of simple: Under Jewelry/Watches, blah blah... Diamond Jewelry Natural (mined from the Earth) (subs for rings/bracelets/necklaces/earrings) Synthetic/Lab Created/Simulated (subs for rings/bracelets/necklaces/earrings) It will (as always has & will continue to) behoove the seller to list in the appropriate category... & they still *won't*, because they have NO consequences & can set up a new shop w/ a diff ID even if they *do* get yanked. It's like all of the Fiberoptic Glass sellers trying to peddle it as "Opal". Ebay is not going to rise to the occasion (sorry!) of nesting on erroneous/nefarious auctions any more in the future than it does now. The appearance of change is being set forth to placate those who have demanded it... Unfortunately, it is robbing Peter to pay Paul. Considering that 50% of the scammers don't know, & the other 50% don't CARE about the difference among categories, there will be no signifigant change in the #s of Fraud complaints or Disputes. You can turn it into a ginormous ratmaze - the offending contingent will STILL list in EVERY category they can KWS in, because they have NO consequences. Watch & Learn. itzFray/orkiPay 25% Club What's your pleasure? *Ow.* Quit it. -(;o)~


itzFray/orkiPay Band Name of The Week: Grand Fiasco (Big Band) *Ow.* Quit it. -(;o)~

(37 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Jun 7, 2007 11:06 PM
What would go under "Lab Created" ?





(38 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Jun 7, 2007 11:22 PM
"It will (as always has & will continue to) behoove the seller to list in the appropriate category... & they still *won't*, because they have NO consequences & can set up a new shop w/ a diff ID even if they *do* get yanked."

Yes, that is exactly why I have submitted the following many times:

Require all sellers to register, then snail mail the seller
a verification code that the new seller must call in
from the land phone they listed, to an eBay automated
eBay verification system, which requires the seller to
enter the verification code they received via snail mail,
and key in their credit card number or bank account for billing.
THEN activate their seller account.
This would insure the seller is in some way connected to
the address and phone number they listed when they applied.

If they become NARUed, it would be much more difficult for
them to return under a new ID, since they would need a
different address and phone, and credit card or bank acct.





(39 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Jun 7, 2007 11:36 PM
Oh! I think I understand now... You would like a sub-cat
"Synthetic/Lab Created/Simulated" to be all-in-one.

An Apollo synthetic diamond (laser inscribed) of 1 carat
is selling at about $6000 to $9000 per carat, and you would
like to have them grouped with simulants ($1 - $20 CZ & glass).

I think that could be a problem.





(40 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Jun 8, 2007 06:13 PM
I can think of bigger ones.

:|
itzFray/orkiPay
25% Club
What's your pleasure?



*Ow.*
Quit it.
-(;o)~


itzFray/orkiPay Band Name of The Week: Grand Fiasco (Big Band) *Ow.* Quit it. -(;o)~

(41 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Jun 23, 2007 04:07 PM
I can't wait for the changes and hope they are enforced. It gets frustrating to have to read half way thru a description only to find out the diamond is clarity enhanced.

Summer is here- so when are the changes? Anyone know?

Regards,
Lisa
(42 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Feb 15, 2008 04:13 PM
adove2000

So why have you given me front page headlines as being decietful in my listings? I stated CZ or Created and you turned me in. I stated Solid Gold and you turned me in.

Those statements were just in the title with further description in the listing. Now, apparently, sellers can sell "Diamonds" in White Gold-Natural Diamonds catagory with Natural Diamond stated in item specifications and a diamond grading chart in listing when actually cz or whatever, not diamond (see listings for tosparkle1). Even the Ebay drop-down for specs offers "solid gold" as an option. Solid gold is not pure gold!

Adove2000 is nothing but a bag of holier than thou sht bag of wind looking to put down any seller who doesn't actually mine their own stones or whatever. Who let you back into Ebay? I would appreciate constructive critism and helpful info but all you want to do is degrade and drag down others!
(43 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Aug 24, 2008 07:18 PM
You can have as many categories as you want. Enforcement is the key.

I bought a piece of glass under the category of enhanced diamond. The seller admitted she didn't know but refused to reimburse me. eBay's policy was clear on this. I contacted and filed with paypal and they side with her. What??? Made no sense to my jeweler either.

I sent an email to eBay asking if I could sell the same ring with the exact wording as the listing and would they support me? Of course, they didn't respond because it was wrong. Since I am not a thief, I wouldn't do it to someone else.

Bottom line : don't buy jewelry on eBay. It;'s a gamble. I foolishly let down my guard and bought a diamond bracelet (the 10% coupon from eBay enticed me back). It's been 10 days and haven't received it and the seller h stopped communication 5 days ago. I'll file again and let you know what happens. I feel so foolish for falling for a scam twice. If it's too good to be true it is. If you have to buy, do so locally where you can meet at a jewelers and pay at the same time.
(44 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Sep 5, 2008 08:29 AM
:)
(45 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Sep 5, 2008 08:31 AM
Gemstone is very great .So I love them .
(46 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Sep 5, 2008 08:39 AM
Ok ,I have read you wblog.In china ,buy in web I have never heard like the thing about luv-2-collect said .
So I only say lack of commercial integrity often leads to ruin of business.
(47 of 103)
Diamonds Category Changes
Sep 5, 2008 08:44 AM
Seller hopes the item arrive on time but since this is an international delivery, shipping time will be highly depended on the courier company and local customs/duties,need your understanding.
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