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Record grading standards
Jul 6, 2005 03:13 PM
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If one of the Ebay staff could make a 'sticky' out of this thread, we'd all appreciate it!! We get asked this question several times a week.
Look at everything about a record. It's playing surface, it's label, it's edges...under a strong light. Then based on your overall impression give it a grade based on the following criteria:
Mint (M) Absolutely perfect in every way. Certainly never been played, possibly even still sealed.(More on still sealed under "Other Considerations"). Should be used sparingly as a grade, If at all.
Near Mint (NM or M-) A nearly perfect record. Many dealers won't give a grade higher than this implying (perhaps correctly)that no record is ever truly perfect.
The record should show no obvious signs of wear. A 45 RPM or EP sleeve should have no more than the most minor defects, such as almost invisible ring wear or other signs of slight handling.
An LP cover should have no creases, folds, seam splits or other noticeable similar defects. No cut-out holes, either. And of course, the same should be true of any other inserts, such as posters, lyric sleeves and the like.
Basically, an LP in near mint condition looks as if you just got it home from a new record store and removed the shrink wrap.
Near Mint is the highest price listed in all Goldmine price guides. Anything that exceeds this grade, in the opinion of both buyer and seller, is worth significantly more than the highest Goldmine book value.
Very Good Plus (VG+) Generally worth 50 percent of the Near Mint value.
A Very Good Plus record will show some signs that it was played and otherwise handled by a previous owner who took good care of it.
Record surfaces may show some signs of wear and may have slight scuffs or very light scratches that don't affect one's listening experiences. Slight warps that do not affect the sound are "OK".
The label may have some ring wear or discoloration, but it should be barely noticeable. The center hole will not have been misshapen by repeated play.
Picture sleeves and LP inner sleeves will have some slight wear, lightly turned up corners, or a slight seam split. An LP cover may have slight signs of wear also and may be marred by a cut-out hole, indentation or corner indicating it was taken out of print and sold at a discount.
In general, if not for a couple things wrong with it, this would be Near Mint. All but the most mint-crazy collectors will find a Very Good Plus record highly acceptable.
Very Good (VG) Generally worth 25 percent of Near Mint value. Many of the defects found in a VG+ record will be more pronounced in a VG disc. Surface noise will be evident upon playing, especially in soft passages and during a song's intro and fade, but will not overpower the music otherwise. Groove wear will start to be noticeable, as with light scratches (deep enough to feel with a fingernail) that will affect the sound.
Labels may be marred by writing, or have tape or stickers (or their residue) attached. The same will be true of picture sleeves or LP covers. However, it will not have all of these problems at the same time, only two or three of them.
Goldmine price guides with more than one price will list Very Good as the lowest price. This, not the Near Mint price, should be your guide when determining how much a record is worth, as that is the price a dealer will normally pay you for a Near Mint record.
Good (G), Good Plus (G+) Generally worth 10-15 percent of the Near Mint value. Good does not mean Bad! A record in Good or Good Plus condition can be put onto a turntable and will play through without skipping. But it will have significant surface noise and scratches and visible groove wear (on a styrene record, the groove will be starting to turn white).
A cover or sleeve will have seam splits, especially at the bottom or on the spine. Tape, writing, ring wear or other defects will start to overwhelm the object.
It is a common item, you'll probably find another copy in better shape eventually. Pass it up. But, if it's something you have been seeking for years, and the price is right, get it...but keep looking to upgrade.
Poor (P), Fair (F) Generally worth 0-5 percent of the Near Mint price. The record is cracked, badly warped, and won't play through without skipping or repeating. The picture sleeve is water damaged, split on all three seams and heavily marred by wear and writing. The LP cover barely keeps the LP inside it. Inner sleeves are fully seam split, crinkled, and written upon.
Except for impossibly rare records otherwise unattainable, records in this condition should be bought or sold for no more than a few cents each
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(216 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
May 17, 2012 11:27 AM
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I'm always arguing against visual grading, as it's not the visual condition that counts, but how it sounds. Visual grading is probably more common on ebay because (a) sellers can't be bothered to play-test (or have excuses about no longer owning a record player), or (b) they make the assumption that collector value is based on the idea of the record as a historical object to sit on a shelf, where playing it is secondary, or may even be something to avoided, since it adds to the wear. Of course I disagree with that. Just wanted to express support for play grading, although in your case it makes sense if the play grade is better than the visual grade
I would suggest "compression marks" should be avoided, as it's too obscure. "Surface marks that do not affect play" may be better. I've often seen "paper sleeve marks" (or something like that) suggesting light markings from inserting and removing records from sleeves. This term is legitimate, as I put my records in plastic lined paper sleeves, and I know even this high level of care makes fine marks on my frequently played records, but with no affect on play.
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(217 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
May 17, 2012 11:57 AM
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Sometimes I call little tiny surface marks "Hairline scratches" then at the bottom of all my record listings I list out all the definitions of all the terminology that I use for grading.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out this stuff, but it helps........The Official Queen of the Thrift Stores and Yard Sales
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(218 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
May 17, 2012 05:52 PM
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Oh by the way, part of the reason my records have visible marks from sleeves, is that I always put the record in with the A-side label facing the front, turned upright. So the record always goes in on the same edge, and if it's had hundreds of plays, it eventually develops sort of a "grain" of tiny scratches in one direction. I've heard you shouldn't put the record in the sleeve the same way every time, to prevent warping. But I've never seen a warp problem from doing this. And anyway, I can't help it, it's just a habit! 
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(219 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Jul 11, 2012 04:26 PM
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I am sure tired of returning lps that skip,are warped,or generally in worse condition than they were advertised.I usually get a refund but i am out the return shipping cost each time.People sure like to peddle junk lps .Ive been too nice and havent left neg feedback ,but it happens often enough I only will buy lps from sellers with whom ive had previous luck,although this lowers the amount of lps to choose from.Im not very picky either,i only require the dam thing play through without skipping.Are there any sellers with large vinyl inventory who wants a repeat buyer?who will stand behind what they sell and if somethings wrong completely refund me?if so you will have a loyal buyer. thanks
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(220 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Jul 11, 2012 04:44 PM
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Yeah!!!! another proponent of play grading.I only listen to vinyl and dont want a copy of a rare lp so it can be hung on the wall,iI want to be able to play it.I get so tired of the no longer have a player excuse for selling bad records.Some of the sellers who use this excuse are selling hundreds of lps!!! You can find a turntable for 20 bucks or less at a thrift store,so this is not a good excuse.If a seller plays a record and gives an honest grade to what they hear ,I bet they would never have a complaint.seems simple enough,but appearantly not simple enough.Seems the Voice OF Reason often goes unheard.
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(221 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Jul 14, 2012 07:16 AM
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I don't have time to play grade - simple as that. I think the problem you're referring to has to do with people unloading some records they found in a relative's basement and they know nothing about them, from description to grading.
If I see a record I 'need' I will buy it from anyone if it has good photos. I have never purchased a record that 'skips'.
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(222 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Jul 18, 2012 05:28 AM
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The Grading System with Vinyl is different with each seller and buyer. I Try to describe every little detail as possible this helps me when selling on ebay. I try only to sell clean records but they are hard to find these days.
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(223 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Jul 18, 2012 05:29 AM
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The Grading System with Vinyl is different with each seller and buyer. I Try to describe every little detail as possible this helps me when selling on ebay. I try only to sell clean records but they are hard to find these days.
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(224 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Jul 18, 2012 04:35 PM
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The grading system itself shouldn't be different. Most people use the Goldmine standard which is very detailed. But you're right, detailing the flaws is more important than a grading that only attemts to summarize the severity of the flaws. A big problem is that people want to look for excuses to give a record a better grade than it deserves, i.e. "near mint, except for all the heavy signs of wear" (to exaggerate what's often seen in listings).
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(225 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Aug 7, 2012 08:57 PM
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and u earned this title to grade how?
I've never heard of PantherBoy2 Record Grading Standards System. Hey, who knows it might work.
I prefer to let the one who is doing the buying and the one doing the selling at the time make their own decisionsat that time.
I don't know about you but if I let someone know that my vinyl is good then it's good.
I understand the need for a standard, but, giving all that into consideration take a look at them all ,and there are lots of different ways to grade.
as Jackie Gleason says Tell like it is. Oh, just for future refs... a light isn't good enough. Put the Vinyl outside in the sunlight, even a new one shows all there. Good Day.
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(226 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Aug 7, 2012 09:00 PM
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(227 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Aug 7, 2012 09:02 PM
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and even when buying one new It could have problems.
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(228 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Aug 8, 2012 02:40 AM
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d-n-m_vinyl wrote:
and u earned this title to grade how?
I've never heard of PantherBoy2 Record Grading Standards System. Hey, who knows it might work.
He is quoting the Goldmine standard, not inventing a new one.
d-n-m_vinyl wrote:
I prefer to let the one who is doing the buying and the one doing the selling at the time make their own decisionsat that time.
How does the person doing the buying, get a chance to grade it, on an internet or mail auction? That's what grading is for: when the buyer can't personally inspect it.
d-n-m_vinyl wrote:
I don't know about you but if I let someone know that my vinyl is good then it's good.
Since good means bad in grading of collectibles, your system is not going to get you the bids you want. You need to learn the system to communicate.
d-n-m_vinyl wrote:
I understand the need for a standard, but, giving all that into consideration take a look at them all ,and there are lots of different ways to grade.
You seem to be arguing against having any standard at all???
d-n-m_vinyl wrote:
as Jackie Gleason says Tell like it is. Oh, just for future refs... a light isn't good enough. Put the Vinyl outside in the sunlight, even a new one shows all there. Good Day.
Thanks for the new d-n-m_vinyl standard!  (Just kidding, you are right that sunlight is better. But some of us might be grading our records at night. Or on a cloudy day.)
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(229 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Aug 21, 2012 09:57 PM
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Rule Number One: There is no such thing as "Mint" even if it is sealed. Then Rule Number Two: Played once it is "Good" and any more plays it is "fair" to "poor".
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(230 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Aug 22, 2012 05:40 AM
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cravinbob wrote:
Rule Number One: There is no such thing as "Mint" even if it is sealed
Nonsense. The word "mint" exists in collecting for a reason. Even if you have technical reasons for saying this, which you haven't explained, your opinion is not that of collectors, and you're off in your own world. Why bother lecturing about that to others?
cravinbob wrote:
Then Rule Number Two: Played once it is "Good" and any more plays it is "fair" to "poor".
I can't tell if you're joking, or have no experience with records. Maybe you once tried playing a half speed mastered audiophile LP on a wind-up Victrola?
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(231 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Sep 25, 2012 08:56 PM
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for goodness sakes, there is only a few of you who sell/auction on line who know how to properly under grade a record on line....It is far more fun winning those mystery records from persons whose primary business in "not" records....never know what one will get (error on the side of caution) a weakly listed Blue Note that misses the japanese dragnet is always a great score no matter what the condition or what pressing 2nd, 3rd, 4th.... (Kennedy era or Reagan era) buying from the uninformed is far more exciting....
Feedback/Stars/Toolhaus: strictly for entertainment purposes only................
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(232 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Sep 26, 2012 06:41 AM
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If you say so. But if you buy from someone who doesn't know what they're doing, even if it's a good buy, they may not package it properly, and it could arrive bent.
As for records that avoid notice by collectors who may be looking for it, due to a listing error, I often stumble across that kind of thing. I once scored a low cost ebay auction for a hard to find edition of an album by the group Gong, which the seller had identified as "Gone". The way the band's name was printed on the cover, it does look like Gone, so I'm guessing the seller didn't know of the band at all. (For those in the know, it was the one with the booklet describing the group's mythology and the trilogy's storyline in great detail, and only came with the first pressing, on Virgin Records' original black and white UK label. A steal at around 10 British pounds.)
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(233 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Oct 25, 2012 08:47 PM
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Ok, you explained what I have know for awhile. I do have a question on the specifics used when writing a description. What do you consider excellent??? and is a sleeve the album cover or the inner sleeve???
I always thought nm- was excellent.
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(234 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Oct 27, 2012 05:29 AM
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NM- is a grade I'd never expect to see. If it's less than near mint, it's not near mint, so it should be something else. I would consider NM to be equivalent to EXC, so if it's less than near mint, it's also less than excellent. According to Goldmine (whose grading system is the most commonly used), the next grading after NM is VG+.
One can become too hung up on grading as a catch-all description. Think of it as a starting point. Give an overall grading, then state any particular flaws (or pluses) you think are worth mentioning, and that should cover it.
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(235 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Oct 27, 2012 05:34 AM
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Forgot to answer your other question... for LPs, the sleeve is the outer cardboard cover. For 45s and 78s, the thin paper cover (which is often generic, i.e. has record company logos but nothing specific to the record) can be called a sleeve, if that's all the record came in.
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(236 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Nov 8, 2012 02:54 PM
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Everyone has their grading opinion. I really work at describing my grades in detail but if the buyer doesn't read it, it won't matter. I keep finding buyers who think VG+ is NM since they don't read the scale under the description. This is frustrating. I have sold mint records and got e-mails they were skipping. After the tutorial on damping and anti-skate it was a perfect record! Everyone has their preferences on equipment as well, from the 10 grand turntable to the used sony with a penny on top of the tonearm. Tell me there's no difference in grading expectations there! If you want close tp perfect playing from my listings, VG+++ and above, for fun, lower and they won't skip either. Since opinion is involved here, I don't see ever having a universal scale.
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(237 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards & LINK
Feb 17, 2013 02:03 PM
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OK, this is a HUGE thread on this subject. Can someone please show the link to exactly where eBay lists their vinyl grading standards? I've been looking for half an hour..... hellllp
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(238 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Feb 20, 2013 01:12 AM
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You've been looking for half an hour, but don't have time to read any of this thread, where your question is already answered? Hmm, maybe you won't have time to read this reply then.
Ebay doesn't have record grading standards. They have general merchandise grading standards like new and used. Goldmine, a magazine and book publisher, has a grading standard that is widely used. If you spend even 5 minutes perusing record auctions, you will find the list of grades, and their meanings, quoted in auctions ad nauseum. (Sorry for the cynicism, I suppose it's good business.)
If I haven't answered your question, please ask again.
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(239 of 240)
Re: Record grading standards
Apr 9, 2013 03:46 PM
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I'm trying to do the right thing here and have been using the Goldmine system but without an "excellent" in between VG+ and NM. My question is, is this the proper criteria below?. When you list in the record category this comes up for both the sleeve and the record under "item specifics". Is excellent a grade higher than VG+ or is this a duplication of VG+? I've had several lp's fall just short of NM and have graded them VG+. Did I leave money on the "table"? I apologize if this horse has been beat....still learnin'
Mint (M)
Near Mint (NM or M-)
Excellent (EX)
Very Good Plus (VG+)
Very Good (VG)
Good Plus (G+)
Good (G)
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