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I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
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I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 11, 2012 10:11 AM
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Hey yall. I got a different kind of problem here...
Long story short:
I received an item SNAD (had actual evidence of such). Before opening a case, I tried reasoning with the seller via eBay messages---he did not comply.
I opened a case against him and tried to work it out with him there (I did not escalate it to eBay just yet):
I send him one last response requesting him to pay return shipping and refund me (July 9, 2012 at 10:27 AM). He does not respond as promptly. So, on July 10, 2012 at 11:10 PM the seller responds stating something like "buyer is king" and asks how much the return is. LESS THAN THE 24hrs THAT A RESPONSE IS EXPECTED (July 11, 2012 at 8:59 AM) the case goes like this:"The seller has issued a full refund of $XXX to your PayPal account and the case is closed." And the details state: "A full refund of $XXX was issued on Jul 11, 2012. The refund includes the purchase price plus original shipping and was issued to the same payment method you used to pay for the item. Please log in to PayPal and view the History page if you don't see it in your PayPal balance."
I did not get a chance to respond to him (I was busy with a real life outside of eBay...GASP)!!! The money is already back in my PayPal account and is marked as "completed". I never agreed to anything just yet and I did not have a chance to respond to the seller (unless eBay made him refund me or eBay did the refunding). There are no other details that say the item must be returned though, right? Do I have to return the item now that the case is closed and I am refunded? What's weird is I thought that a case would be opened fer atleast 30 days and both sides had to come to an agreement.
Advice? Thanks!
Yall can't have muh flag.
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(1 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 11, 2012 10:30 AM
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The whole purpose of SNAD is to get your money back when returning the item, not get your money AND the item. Return shipping costs are on you as per eBay user agreement. So return the item and don't be a scammer. Not sure what you wanted to agree to, keep the item and the money?
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(2 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 11, 2012 10:37 AM
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lmao.
I'm not trying to scam the seller, but I did not get to respond to him. I was trying to get him to pay shipping cost before trying to escalate it to eBay (didn't get to do that either).
Not sure if you really answered my question, but we had not officially agreed to anything yet. Things went too quickly fer no reason.
I'll see if I can contact this guy about what he just did.
Thanks.
Yall can't have muh flag.
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(3 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 11, 2012 10:49 AM
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Once you open the SNAD case against the seller, you already agree to return the item. You cannot keep both the item and the money or it's fraud. As I said, per eBay user agreement you're responsible for the return shipment cost, not the seller. Some sellers kindly refund the return shipping, but they're not required to and you returning the item is not conditional on it.
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(4 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 11, 2012 11:07 AM
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I just called eBay, and that ain't exactly how things work. I was told I could make an appeal. I won't do that just yet. I'll still try to contact the seller. He moved a BIT too fast on this one.
Yall can't have muh flag.
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(5 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 11, 2012 11:38 AM
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If the goods are not as described, your own legal or ethical obligation is to notify the seller and keep the goods safe for him to make return arrangements. Since the seller voluntarily refunded, Buyer Protection terms (that might require you to return at your own expense) are irrelevant.
So yes, I would contact the seller and ask him to make the return shipping arrangements.
Good luck...
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(6 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 11, 2012 06:00 PM
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I had this same exact situation happen to me just recently (on my other ebay username) and I agree with the response from couldabeenworse. The seller was very terse when I contacted them with the problem even though I was very polite. I corresponded with them again and they just didn't want to work with me. I opened a case and asked for return shipping in addition to a full refund. The seller refunded almost immediately after the case was opened and the case was CLOSED. There was no mention of returning the item since the shipping they charged was 1/3 the item cost. By refunding immediately, THEY (the seller) was agreeing to the terms of the case. So... a week or so later, I get a message from ebay (that was sent on behalf of the seller) stating they had not received the return & that per eBay policy, I had to pay return shipping. I NEVER AGREED TO DO THIS! The seller contacted me directly and started bashing me for not returning the item. I politely told them I would be happy to IF they paid for it. I do not want to keep it, I do not want to scam them, BUT I NEVER AGREED TO PAY RETURN SHIPPING. Also, I am a longtime eBayer and was a member long before these policies were put in place. I occasionally sell, but mainly am a buyer. With that said, SELLERS TAKE NOTE: If you screw-up in a description, why should a buyer pay extra to return an item when it was NOT their fault. YOU ARE TO BLAME. PERIOD! This is regardless of ANY policy that eBay has!!!
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(7 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 11, 2012 06:21 PM
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@couldabeen:
Hmmm. I'm communicating with him now. I'll have to wait for another response on how he's going to refund me, since NOW he has agreed that he'll pay shipping. So far, everything is good.
@bluecar:
I'm glad I ain't the only one that feels this way. Sorry that you had to go through that complete MESS. We should not have to pay fer a seller's mistake. Right now, my seller is being a hecka lot more cooperative than yers was, so I'm hoping things work out between us.
And yeah, I've noticed a few sellers leaving due to policy changes... Some of my favorites are no longer selling!
Thanks everyone fer the input. I appreciate it.
Yall can't have muh flag.
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(8 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 11, 2012 08:03 PM
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Glad it's getting worked out. Some sellers refund quickly because then eBay will not give them a strike, if the dispute closes in buyer's favor then the seller will get a strike; if they refund before that, they don't. Having a few strikes will literally restrict the seller from selling. It doesn't mean that he doesn't want to get his item back.
Also, while it's true nobody wants to pay return shipping when it's clearly the seller's fault, sometimes it's hard to say who's fault it is and then it's useful to keep it mind that the seller paid for having the item shipped to you. So you're essentially asking them to pay shipping twice. Thatswhy in Buyer Protection cases eBay asks the buyer to pay the shipping. Also there are plenty of scammers who open SNAD cases just to get the item for free in the hopes of not having to return it.
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(9 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 12, 2012 03:55 AM
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guitar_lover_and_p.. wrote:
I'm communicating with him now. I'll have to wait for another response on how he's going to refund me, since NOW he has agreed that he'll pay shipping. So far, everything is good.
To me the seller got tired of dealing with you so they just refunded your money. They didn't want to commit within the dispute that they would pay shipping back... and even if they did, eBay couldn't MAKE them refund return shipping since it wasn't part of what you paid... eBay can't just take money out of someone's account - they can only reverse the original transaction.
My suggestion is to call eBay and mention you were trying to work out withe the seller that they would pay return shipping, and then the case was closed and you got your money back. You still have the item and want to ship it back but don't think it is fair for you to have to pay shipping back on a SNAD. Try to get EBAY to send you a label to attach to the package to ship it back. They will often do that for a buyer on a SNAD dispute just to make the buyer happy and not result in negative feelings over the transaction. If you get the label, it's easy and just send the package back and leave good feedback since you weren't out anything. That's what eBay is aiming for when they give you a label to ship back.... no hard feelings either way. I've gotten a label from eBay a couple times, they are really good about wanting to keep buyer's happy.
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(10 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 12, 2012 08:09 AM
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guitar_lover: Glad to hear the seller has agreed to pay return shipping. Let's hope they follow through.
cherietrees: I understand a seller not wanting to get a strike, but if they are so concerned about getting the item back and do not want to pay for return shipping, then why not wait for eBay to give the ruling on the Case? Also, what if they refunded right away thinking they could avoid paying for return shipping? Even if eBay does find in favor of the buyer, the buyer has to return the item with proof of delivery before any refund is issued, That's when the policy of "Buyer pays return shipping" goes into effect. In some extreme cases, eBay may provide a pre-paid shipping label and may actually issue the refund themselves, but again, no refund is issued until there is proof of delivery.
My whole point is this: If the buyer has opened a Case and asked that the seller pay return shipping and then the seller decides to refund before any ruling by eBay, then they are agreeing to the terms of the Case and the case is Closed.
ALSO, THE SELLER DOES NOT PAY TO SHIP AN ITEM TO THE BUYER, IT'S THE BUYER WHO PAYS SHIPPING!!!
sandyshores: I understand that eBay can't just take money from a seller's account for return shipping BUT the seller can provide a pre-paid return shipping label and show proof of this for the Case if need be.
Sellers: Something else to think about when you wonder why a buyer doesn't want to foot the bill to return an item:
Buyers have to spend time packing the item, pay for packing matierials, spend time (and gas) driving to the carrier to have it weighed, then pay the going rate for shipping (and possibly tracking/delivery confirmation).
Sellers "generally" have shipping accounts with reduced shipping rates, have regular pick-ups by the carrier, and figure the cost of packing materials and their time to pack in with the item cost (or should if they're smart). Also, some sellers may figure the shipping costs in with the item price too, but again, that's another story.
Now then with all this said, who comes out on the short end???
As a seller who wants the item back so badly (regardless of WHO is to blame!), why not pay to have it shipped back to you then figure those return shipping costs back into the item and then re-sell it - assuming you did not send a defective item to begin with?
A hassle you say, well, look at the hassle the buyer has to go through just to send it back to you!
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(11 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 12, 2012 09:53 PM
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RE:
So return the item and don't be a scammer.
I bought on eBay 5, listed as new and sealed cell phones, I was going to resell, they all were for StraightTalk.
Seller at that point had all good fb.
All came in original though unsealed packaging, all had call history going back nearly 1 year.
I gave the seller 10 days to do something.
Not even a reply.
All were single buys.
I filed with eBay SNAD, eBay refunded all within 2 hours after I escalated.
eBay provided 2 labels prepaid to return 2 of them, I did,
no order to return the others, why should I?
Seller still can pay me to return them as I asked him from the start.
Seller began accruing negs from others for the same.
Sellers account is now history.
Almost daily I dine at
Jack in the Box
Once a week at the
China Buffet
Once a week at
Hometown Buffet
A George Jones song
"What my woman can't do can't be done"
"I am watching you"
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(12 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 12, 2012 11:41 PM
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bluecarcar2006 wrote:
Most sellers are buyers too. So we understand what you are saying. When I have my buyer hat on and I get a SNAD item, the first thing I think about is.... TIME/HASSLE/MONEY. You tend to want to ask the seller that won't offer to pay the return shipping "why should I be out ANY money because you lied in your auction."
But, being a seller too, I realize that mistakes can be made and I give the seller the benefit of a doubt and don't ask that. Also you have to realize that there are buyers out there that are trying to scam sellers... it only takes a few to get a seller on the defensive.
The buyer can ask all they want for a seller to refund return shipping, but according to eBay's current policy, it is the buyer's responsibility to pay for return shipping ... unless other arrangements are made with the seller. Original shipping IS refunded on a SNAD... the entire paypal payment is refunded which includes original shipping. So the seller gets the item back but they are out the original shipping cost... and if they pay for the return shipping, they are out that cost too. If they refund without going thru the dispute process, they are also out their listing costs and their Final Value fees (unless they put in a request to cancel the transaction). So you see, returns can be quite costly for the seller as well, and very time consuming.
Yes, the seller can email the buyer a jpg of a label, but it still costs them money.
There is no reason a buyer would have to pay for packing, the item should be packed with the same packing/box it was shipped in. On the shipping label of the package is the weight of the package. Anyone can go into the USPS website and print out labels... heck I was doing it to mail christmas gifts before I even sold on eBay. There you get the same "discount" that a seller does. It's just a discount for printing online rather than paying for postage at a post office. And delivery confirmation is free if you print the labels on line. A buyer can set up carrier pickup too. You have to create an account on the USPS website but that just takes a minute... and like I said, you can use it to get reduced prices for personal mailings too.
Now, with that said, as a seller I do refund return shipping if I made a mistake in the listing. I think it keeps a seller on their toes if they have it in the back of their mind they will be out a lot of money on shipping costs/FVFs if they make a mistake describing an item. I reinspect my items before I pack them... and there has been occasion where I caught something before packing that I didn't catch when describing the item. Then you contact the buyer and let them make the decision if they still want the item at a discounted price or want to cancel the transaction.
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(13 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 13, 2012 04:25 AM
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Just as a seller is required to accept returns no matter what the reason~including buyer remorse~a buyer is required to pay return shipping no matter what the reason. The seller is going to refund you the purchase price plus original shipping. That means he is out of pocket the original shipping. The buyer will be out of pocket the return shipping. Sounds even to me.
Ebay even states in the auction listing that the return shipping is the buyers responsibility. When a bidder hits that "bid now" button they are agreeing to the sellers terms. One of those terms they are agreeing to is to pay return shipping no matter the reason~~the same as a seller has to accept returns no matter the reason.
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(14 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 13, 2012 07:43 AM
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kattinsanity wrote:
Just as a seller is required to accept returns no matter what the reason~including buyer remorse~a buyer is required to pay return shipping no matter what the reason. Ebay even states in the auction listing that the return shipping is the buyers responsibility. When a bidder hits that "bid now" button they are agreeing to the sellers terms. One of those terms they are agreeing to is to pay return shipping no matter the reason~~the same as a seller has to accept returns no matter the reason.
If you do a search under Customer Support and put in the words "return shipping" here is what eBay says: In most cases, the buyer pays shipping when returning an item to a seller. There are a few exceptions. Sellers pay return shipping if an item doesn't match the listing description.
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(15 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 13, 2012 07:49 AM
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I think eBay is changing their policy on SNAD. Looks like all their policy pages on returns have been updated recently. I would have agreed with you a couple weeks ago... but now looks like if the item is SNAD, eBay is wanting the seller to refund return shipping and will take it out of your account. What is not clear is if you have to opt in to their automated process for this to be true.... or if everyone is going to have to use the automated process shortly no matter if they want to or not.
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(16 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 13, 2012 07:53 AM
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Just as a seller is required to accept returns no matter what the reason~including buyer remorse~a buyer is required to pay return shipping no matter what the reason.
That used to be a requirement for Buyer protection claims; there is no other legal or ethical basis for that when the goods don't conform to the contract.
The seller is going to refund you the purchase price plus original shipping. That means he is out of pocket the original shipping. The buyer will be out of pocket the return shipping. Sounds even to me.
Only if by "even" you mean the innocent party takes a loss because the other party screwed up.
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(17 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 13, 2012 08:08 AM
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And FWIW, I don't think anybody here thinks you're a villain. I think most of us can relate to what you're thinking, but we also see the buyer's and eBay's concerns.
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(18 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 13, 2012 09:14 AM
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<as Professor Farnsworth> GOOD NEWS, EVERYONE!
We were finally able to solve things. I was able to ship the item off and the seller willingly reimbursed my shipping in full! We are on good terms and he still wants me as his customer. I admit, he does have nice items.
I left him positive feedback fer cooperating with me and being civil (unlike some of the stuff I've heard about). I did not ding him at all; I do think he's an honest seller of some sort.
I dunno what's going on here now though, lolol.
I think that sandyshores is referring to this page: http://forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/February-28-2012/Seller-Will-Pay/5100052985
Thanks yall fer the input!
Yall can't have muh flag.
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(19 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 13, 2012 09:44 AM
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Actually, from reading ebays return policy, it states: "Buyer has 14 days to return the item (buyer pays shipping fees) Item will be refunded". If you take ebays statement at face value, the buyer gets the item cost refunded but is responsible for ALL shipping fees.
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(20 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 13, 2012 11:22 AM
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Guess it depends on which page of their policy you read. But it is evident eBay is making changes in the policy to hold the seller responsible to pay return shipping on SNAD.
And if a buyer goes into the Customer Support help section (at the top right of each eBay page) and searches on "Return Shipping" and sees eBay says the seller pays return shipping on a SNAD.... why shouldn't the buyer assume the seller is going to pay it? ... and get upset if the seller doesn't want to pay for it. Should they instead do another couple searches to try and find someplace where it says they pay return shipping?
I think that just by virtue of a seller taking returns they are opting in to the new return policy and need to be prepared to refund return shipping on SNAD. To me a Top Seller is one with good selling ethics. Those ethics should dictate that if they didn't describe the item correctly, they should pay the return shipping - the buyer shouldn't be out any money when the seller makes a mistake. Just MHO and I know some may not agree.
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(21 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 13, 2012 11:27 AM
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sandyshoresvirtual.. wrote:
Guess it depends on which page of their policy you read. But it is evident eBay is making changes in the policy to hold the seller responsible to pay return shipping on SNAD.
And if a buyer goes into the Customer Support help section (at the top right of each eBay page) and searches on "Return Shipping" and sees eBay says the seller pays return shipping on a SNAD.... why shouldn't the buyer assume the seller is going to pay it? ... and get upset if the seller doesn't want to pay for it. Should they instead do another couple searches to try and find someplace where it says they pay return shipping?
I think that just by virtue of a seller taking returns they are opting in to the new return policy and need to be prepared to refund return shipping on SNAD. To me a Top Seller is one with good selling ethics. Those ethics should dictate that if they didn't describe the item correctly, they should pay the return shipping - the buyer shouldn't be out any money when the seller makes a mistake. Just MHO and I know some may not agree.
RE:
But it is evident eBay is making changes in the policy to hold the seller responsible to pay return shipping on SNAD.
That is the way it should be.
Does anyone think otherwise?
Almost daily I dine at
Jack in the Box
Once a week at the
China Buffet
Once a week at
Hometown Buffet
A George Jones song
"What my woman can't do can't be done"
"I am watching you"
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(22 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 14, 2012 09:23 AM
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"Guess it depends on which page of their policy you read". It isn't in the policies. It's on the shipping details of every auction you list. On your listing click on "shipping details". On that page it states return policy: "Buyer has 14 days to return item (buyer pays shipping fees) Item will be refunded".
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(23 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 14, 2012 10:45 AM
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I realize a lot of sellers don't feel they should have to pay the return shipping if they describe an item wrong - I myself have hit those types when I buy things.
However there are a lot of sellers that do feel they should pay the return shipping if they described their item wrong. Look at my return policy. I have as you stated but I also have in my policy details that buyer pays return shipping "unless other arrangements have been made with the seller." I put that in because I do not expect a buyer to be out anything if I made a mistake and will not ask them to pay return shipping when I am in the wrong. But if they made a mistake, I do expect them to pay return shipping. You will also note that in my policy I don't refund ORIGINAL shipping on a changed mind nor do I refund return shipping.
I don't think eBay ever intended for the buyer to be out money for a seller's mistake.
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