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I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
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I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 11, 2012 10:11 AM
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Hey yall. I got a different kind of problem here...
Long story short:
I received an item SNAD (had actual evidence of such). Before opening a case, I tried reasoning with the seller via eBay messages---he did not comply.
I opened a case against him and tried to work it out with him there (I did not escalate it to eBay just yet):
I send him one last response requesting him to pay return shipping and refund me (July 9, 2012 at 10:27 AM). He does not respond as promptly. So, on July 10, 2012 at 11:10 PM the seller responds stating something like "buyer is king" and asks how much the return is. LESS THAN THE 24hrs THAT A RESPONSE IS EXPECTED (July 11, 2012 at 8:59 AM) the case goes like this:"The seller has issued a full refund of $XXX to your PayPal account and the case is closed." And the details state: "A full refund of $XXX was issued on Jul 11, 2012. The refund includes the purchase price plus original shipping and was issued to the same payment method you used to pay for the item. Please log in to PayPal and view the History page if you don't see it in your PayPal balance."
I did not get a chance to respond to him (I was busy with a real life outside of eBay...GASP)!!! The money is already back in my PayPal account and is marked as "completed". I never agreed to anything just yet and I did not have a chance to respond to the seller (unless eBay made him refund me or eBay did the refunding). There are no other details that say the item must be returned though, right? Do I have to return the item now that the case is closed and I am refunded? What's weird is I thought that a case would be opened fer atleast 30 days and both sides had to come to an agreement.
Advice? Thanks!
Yall can't have muh flag.
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(48 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 16, 2012 11:46 AM
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bluecar~~Are you and guitar lover one and the same??
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(49 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 16, 2012 11:47 AM
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IF NOT, I was responding to guitar lover~~not you so what are you talking about?
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(50 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 16, 2012 02:21 PM
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Some posters say the policy IS GOING TO CHANGE but it hasn't yet so you have to abide by the CURRENT POLICY which is you return at YOUR EXPENSE.
Oh fer cryin out loud. ...
The current policy is stated in the help section: sellers are expected to pay return shipping when the goods are not as described.
The "policy" you keep quoting is the one YOU put in your own listings.
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(51 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 16, 2012 02:37 PM
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kattinsanity wrote:
It wasn't that someone turned me in. I went to list something one day and I got everything all ready and clicked the continue button and a big message came up~~like when you list something beer or liquor related and it tells you that you can't ship alcohol through the mail. It told me I could not have anything in my listing that might lead a buyer to not bid on my auction. I tried a few changes and still the same message came up UNTIL I removed the "If you may be offended with the possibility of smoke odor please do not bid". Once I took that out I could finish the listing. If I were to try putting that in my listings today I'm sure I would still get the same message.
That's pretty neat they do that - guess it discourages bidding (thus eats into eBay's profit) so that's why they catch that when you are trying to list an item.
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(52 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 16, 2012 04:44 PM
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"sellers are expected" does not mean "sellers are required" and ebay will NOT force them to pay return shipping. If they are willing to take a neg and don't bend over backwards for the buyer, that is their choice.
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(53 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 16, 2012 11:10 PM
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kattinsanity wrote:
"sellers are expected" does not mean "sellers are required" and ebay will NOT force them to pay return shipping. If they are willing to take a neg and don't bend over backwards for the buyer, that is their choice.
You are beating a dead horse. And you are hanging onto the "old" ways. Obviously, the buyer paying return shipping on a SNAD doesn't sit well with buyers and they have voiced that to eBay. So eBay is changing their policy, slowly but surely.
eBay wants sellers to pay the return shipping on SNAD... that is VERY clear. And why not? Can any seller that states they take returns honestly, and ethically, say that it is good customer service for their customer to have to be out money when the seller doesn't describe an item right? When a seller states they take returns they are raising their creditability with the buyer - just like when they state they ship items in 1 day, they are raising their creditability with buyers. That's what a TOP SELLER should be all about. Good customer service.
The buyer paying for returns will probably continue for sellers that don't offer a return... then a SNAD is a dispute, not a return. Which would be a good reason for buyers to purchase from sellers that take returns!
I've seen in the last 4 weeks that eBay is slowly putting more informaton up that makes this clearer. As I've pointed out in other threads that you have been in on, this is what is stated when a user keys in "return shipping" under the Customer Support help tab - Who pays Return Shipping?.... and I don't see any "expected" or "should"...
In most cases, the buyer pays shipping when returning an item to a seller. There are few exceptions. Sellers pay return shipping if an item doesn't match the listing description. Buyers usually pay return shipping if they change their mind about wanting an item and it's covered by the seller's return policy.
As soon as this new Opt In return comes into full force, all this will become more evident. It behooves a Top Seller to get ready for it now.
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(54 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 17, 2012 05:29 AM
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kattinsanity: You are apparently NOT reading what the policy says and what others have been pointing about about a SNAD.
If the seller does file an abuse/misuse of Buyer Protection, I have picture proof of the item being incorrect as well as the seller's own admission that the item was not as pictured and as described. I also have proof that I asked for return shipping (with an RMA#) before returning the item and before opening the Case. There is also proof that they NEVER asked that I pay to have the item returned until several days AFTER the Case was Closed.
I am not making excuses because I want to keep the item, but I am making excuses NOT to pay return shipping for a mistake that was NOT mine. The item will be returned as soon as the seller sends an RMA with a pre-paid label, but until then, it stays in my possession.
Also, it just breaks my heart that you placed me on your BBL! LOL
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(55 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 17, 2012 06:27 AM
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If you read the new automated return policy, the SELLER chooses who pays return shipping~~the same as it's always been. Ebay WILL NOT and CAN NOT change that since it is THEIR new policy and THEY allow the seller to make the choice of who pays.
bluecar~~Since ebay already ruled in your favor for a refund UPON RETURN of the item you are required to return it even at your own expense. You can not legally hold the item hostage until the seller pays the return shipping AND keep the money as well. The seller can still appeal the dispute stating you never returned the item. THEN ebay will order you to return it and you could very well find yourself with a closed ebay account. Even ebay doesn't allow you to keep the item and keep the $$ when they have ruled that you need to return it to the seller.
Maybe it doesn't bother you to be added to my BBL because you don't have the "taste" for the items I sell anyway. My feedback clearly shows that MANY do have the "taste". I'm just a small seller but have sold nearly $200.00 since last night with several auctions ending yet today that can put me over the $200.00 in sales. I am proud of that no matter your "opinion".
You still haven't answered yet if you and guitar are one and the same? If you are NOT then I wasn't posting to you anyway.
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(56 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 17, 2012 06:44 AM
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ebay will NOT force them to pay return shipping.
Since the seller voluntarily refunded, eBay would not have forced the OP to pay return shipping, either.
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(57 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 17, 2012 06:51 AM
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bluecarcar2006 wrote:
I am not making excuses because I want to keep the item, but I am making excuses NOT to pay return shipping for a mistake that was NOT mine. The item will be returned as soon as the seller sends an RMA with a pre-paid label, but until then, it stays in my possession.
Since eBay has refunded your entire payment and not required you to return the item... just keep the item in it's original box stuck away someplace for a month. If they send you a label, send it back. If not, take it to Goodwill or use it if you want.
I don't know what the SNAD was... broken so the seller couldn't resell it again, or just some little thing where they could resell it again. Seems to me the seller is doing calcs on how much orig shipping was and how much return shipping is... and wondering if it is worth getting the item back. If it was broken, why would they even want it back.
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(58 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 17, 2012 06:58 AM
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If you read the new automated return policy, the SELLER chooses who pays return shipping~~the same as it's always been.
No, if you actually read the spring update, it says this:
"Return shipping charges will be handled as specified in your return policy. Sellers are required to pay for return shipping if the buyer is returning the item based on it not being as described in the listing. eBay will pay the carrier for return shipping charges directly. If your return policy specifies the buyer pays, eBay will charge the buyer’s PayPal account. If you pay, it will appear as a fee on your next monthly seller invoice"
bluecar~~Since ebay already ruled in your favor for a refund UPON RETURN of the item you are required to return it even at your own expense.
Again, if one actually reads bluecars post, ebay didn't rule at all: the seller voluntarily refunded and nobody agreed to anything regarding return shipping.
You can not legally hold the item hostage until the seller pays the return shipping AND keep the money as well.
By law, if the goods don't conform to the contract, the only obligations the buyer has are to inform the seller and keep the item safe while the seller makes return arrangements.
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(59 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 17, 2012 07:52 AM
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"If your return policy specifies the buyer pays, ebay will charge the buyers account".
It seems I just read somewhere the last few days that "EBAY CAN NOT TAKE MONEY FROM BUYERS ACCOUNTS~~JUST SELLERS ACCOUNTS". This kinda shoots that "policy??" down, doesn't it?
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(60 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 17, 2012 07:57 AM
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sandyshores: This is a SNAD where the item isn't broken - it was clearly not as pictured and not as described in the listing, and the seller did admit this in a message they sent through eBay.
couldabeenworse: THANK YOU for reading what I have posted! You are exactly right - eBay did not rule in my case at all. The seller voluntarily refunded and there was no agreement about who would pay for return shipping.
kattinsanity: No --- Guitar_lover and I are not one in the same. You did direct your responses to my username, and that's why I responded back to you.
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(61 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 17, 2012 07:58 AM
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kattinsanity wrote:
"If your return policy specifies the buyer pays, ebay will charge the buyers account".
It seems I just read somewhere the last few days that "EBAY CAN NOT TAKE MONEY FROM BUYERS ACCOUNTS~~JUST SELLERS ACCOUNTS". This kinda shoots that "policy??" down, doesn't it?
It gets kind of time consuming correcting you. You need to read all the new policies on returns before you post.
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(62 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 17, 2012 08:03 AM
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It seems I just read somewhere the last few days that "EBAY CAN NOT TAKE MONEY FROM BUYERS ACCOUNTS~~JUST SELLERS ACCOUNTS". This kinda shoots that "policy??" down, doesn't it?
No. You are confusing "taking money" and "making a payment". eBay can't initiate a charge against a buyer, but buyers can certainly pay for the return label during the return process.
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(63 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 17, 2012 08:37 AM
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As in the OP's "problem" since the seller says buyer is responsible for return shipping the buyer (OP) would automatically be charged the return shipping.
Now, let's say the buyer has no printer, no scale, no idea how and no way to print a shipping label so has to go to the post office and pay over the counter for the return shipping. If ebay deems a seller responsible for return shipping charges in a SNAD dispute, how can the seller be charged for the shipping when the buyer doesn't print the label?
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(64 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 17, 2012 08:39 AM
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For those sellers that have Opted In to the new return policy this is already in place.
Return shipping charges will be handled as specified in your return policy. Sellers are required to pay for return shipping if the buyer is returning the item based on it not being as described in the listing. eBay will pay the carrier for return shipping charges directly. If your return policy specifies the buyer pays, eBay will charge the buyer’s PayPal account. If you pay, it will appear as a fee on your next monthly seller invoice.
Remember that the Opt In is just rolling out now. BUT as eBay states in their announcements, it is intended to be eBay's long term solution for ALL eBay transactions.
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(65 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 17, 2012 08:47 AM
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I'm not confusing TAKING money from a buyers account. IF a buyer feels the seller is responsible for return shipping but prints a label it's automatically charged to the buyers account. THAT is taking $$ from the buyer when a buyer doesn't feel they should be paying for the shipping.
What is going to happen with SNAD disputes when buyers are given the right to just return an item by printing a label? UNLESS a SNAD dispute is opened a seller isn't responsible for return shipping and the buyer will automatically be charged the return shipping when they print the label.
Buyers are still going to have to open SNAD disputes to make the seller responsible for return shipping. IF a buyer doesn't file a dispute and just returns it he is going to be responsible for return shipping if the seller states so in his TOS. To just return it by printing a label is saying "there is nothing wrong with it~I just changed my mind" in which case the buyer is correctly responsible for the return costs.
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(66 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 17, 2012 08:49 AM
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As in the OP's "problem" since the seller says buyer is responsible for return shipping the buyer (OP) would automatically be charged the return shipping.
Still No. If it is not as described, seller will be charged under the automated returns procedure. The seller's return terms are irrelevant if the item is SNAD.
Now, let's say the buyer has no printer, no scale, no idea how and no way to print a shipping label so has to go to the post office and pay over the counter for the return shipping. If ebay deems a seller responsible for return shipping charges in a SNAD dispute, how can the seller be charged for the shipping when the buyer doesn't print the label?
He probably can't. The buyer would have to take the Flintstone-mobile to the Bedrock post office, and plunk down some of his own granite-bucks so the pterodactyl could fly the item back to the seller.
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(67 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 17, 2012 09:05 AM
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IF a buyer feels the seller is responsible for return shipping but prints a label it's automatically charged to the buyers account.
That does not appear to be how it will work. It looks like the process will be: buyer goes to the automated return page, selects "not as described", and the seller is charged. Presumably, the seller will be able to dispute this somehow down the road if the item is actually as described.
What is going to happen with SNAD disputes when buyers are given the right to just return an item by printing a label? UNLESS a SNAD dispute is opened a seller isn't responsible for return shipping and the buyer will automatically be charged the return shipping when they print the label.
Part of the reason for the automated process is to prevent these things from becoming disputes or claims. Time will tell how this works or if it will be modified.
Buyers are still going to have to open SNAD disputes to make the seller responsible for return shipping.
Again, that does not appear to be the case.
There is eBay input on this matter here:
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/February-2012-Seller/Seller-Will-Pay/5100052985
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(68 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 18, 2012 01:00 PM
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GOOD NEWS (well, for me anyway!) I received a message from CS and it contained a link to a pre-paid shipping label. The message has an SR# associated with it and the 2nd page of the label has recommended return instructions. My guess is the Seller contacted CS again and told them the item had not been returned. I'm now wondering if (1) CS told them it was their responsibility to pay return shipping AND/OR (2) CS sent me the label based on the Seller having contacted them again and will ultimately be charging the Seller for the return shipping.
Anyway...I'm curious about it but will not bother calling CS again. I took the pkg. to the Post Office and they scanned it and gave me the drop-off receipt, so it's on the way back. I'm glad to be rid of it!!!
Thank you ALL for a lively discussion. I learned a lot, had fun "venting" and definitely had a few laughs concerning "Gremlins" and "Flintstones"! LOL
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(69 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 18, 2012 02:30 PM
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=================
I had 5 recent SNAD claims as a buyer.
I won all, eBay paid the mailing back of 2.
I was refunded in full..
The others are still here.
=============================
Almost daily I dine at
Jack in the Box
Once a week at the
China Buffet
Once a week at
Hometown Buffet
A George Jones song
"What my woman can't do can't be done"
"I am watching you"
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(70 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 19, 2012 04:01 AM
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Didn't I tell you a seller could and DID do that? Hopefully the item wasn't over $250.00 as ebay doesn't include sig confirm on their labels even though it is required. I've even heard they don't sometimes include tracking?? You are required to purchase the DC at the post office yourself if they don't include it. As in UPS labels for over $250.00 items ebay doesn't include sig confirm on those either. Ebay only gives FREE bare bones return labels.
Hopefully you are covered in all the above or they will return your refund to the seller.
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(71 of 91)
Re: I opened eBay case, it's closed. Was refunded, but do i return item?
Jul 19, 2012 04:27 AM
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bluecar~~ebay had to order you 3 TIMES to return the item to the seller. They even told you the 2nd time that YOU were responsible for the return shipping and you refused to ship it. This time they gave you the free label but rest assured, this transaction IS a mark against your account. A few too many negative marks on your account and you could be booted off ebay. They don't play games with members who don't play per their policies. They gave you a free label this time but don't waste your breath ever expecting another one. They don't look kindly on a member who was suppose to return the item for a refund and failed to return, was ordered again to return the item at YOUR expense and failed to do so and then they had to send you a free label for you to return the item on the THIRD order to return.
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