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Last Post Feb 10, 2009 12:34 PM by: marnisue@ebay.com
Replies: 3,172
jeffking@ebay.com
Posts: 105

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 24, 2007 12:00 PM
Hello all,

Thanks for all of your continued comments on the Playground and the test. We’re committed to getting your feedback and engagement. I thought it made sense to outline again some of the issues with the current search that we’re trying to address with the new system.

So, what are some of the major things we’re trying to improve?

Improved ‘recall’
  • Recall is the term for the items that get returned for a particular search query. Try searching for something on eBay now and in Finding 2.0 (playground) and usually you’ll find more stuff.
  • For example, “size 12 puma shoes” on current search = 129 items, but in Finding 2.0 it’s 267. We think that searching for “size 12 puma shoes” should show return ALL the size 12 puma shoes on eBay.
  • BTW, I compare the two systems side by side all the time by having Link in Internet Explorer and Link in Firefox. Since they use separate cookies you can keep each up and compare the same queries between the two experiences.


More useful / relevant navigation
  • The navigation on eBay today is mostly based on eBay’s category structure, e.g. Matching Categories In some cases we currently surface ‘product finders’ (such as the cell phone finder) and we’ve seen overwhelming evidence that buyers that use the product finder navigation find/bid/buy more often. It is this insight that is driving us to improve this across the site.
  • Take a look at ‘air compressors’ on on the current search vs. Finding 2.0. We think that showing navigation by Make, Power Source, Storage Capacity, Horsepower is a much more useful use of navigation than refining down into categories. We can do this by pulling out the useful attributes that sellers are already providing in their listings and showing them to buyers in an easy to use way.


Multi-choice product finders


More ways to find what you want

Multiple paths to the same inventory
  • We’re also trying to accommodate the different ways that buyers may think about or browse to results instead of forcing buyers to understand the single category structure. For example, you can find the SAME items in both Cameras & Photo --> Photo Printers, Scanner, Suppliers--> Scanners and in Computer & Networking ---> Scanners. Try it on Finding 2.0
  • This current limitation is caused by having only a ‘single dimension’ in eBay’s category structure. Sellers must choose a single category for an item or list the item in two categories at twice the price. We recognize that Buyers who’ve ‘mastered’ the eBay category structure can find this a useful tool. But we know that most buyers don’t bother and end up browsing or constraining their search only one way or another which causes them to not see items that actually exist on the site. For example, today there are 170 scanners in photo and 1489 different scanners in computers and networking


A few things we’re still working on:


  • Result Set layout

    We’re not happy with the look and feel of the new (or existing) result set (how the list of items look after your search) We’ve taken a ton of feedback from the community on the test we did of this last fall and are releasing a simpler version of this in just a few weeks. We are adding customization at this time as well (right now we only have a single layout of the page)

  • Search Features

    We’re not done adding all the features to the new system / test. We made the decision to get the new version of the search out in front of the community quickly, even before we got all the features built. I’d count this as the largest complaint we’ve heard (“I can’t find completed items!”) but this was done in order to get feedback on the features we have completed. Here are some of the items we’re still working on:

  • Completed items – Agree this is a must have feature! We want competed items to be even easier to find and use than before.

  • Favorite searches – we agree. you should be able to add/edit your favorites right in line with search. Coming soon.

  • Stores integration – stores need to be easy to find and we need to return stores items in a consistent manner. We haven’t finished all the stores integration work.

  • Cross border items integration – Inventory from other eBay sites should be available and consistently integrated.



  • Taxonomy / classification

    These are the terms used to describe the category structure and item attributes that will drive the navigation / refinement of the site for buyers. This is literally something that we’ll always be working on improving and can really use your expertise here. We’ve been making a lot of changes based on your feedback already.


How can you help / provide feedback?


We’d love & need your feedback on this. The site we have up now on Link is meant to be an environment where we can show the community an early iteration of the product for the purpose of getting feedback. There is a survey link at the very top of the page, please be sure to include the query you’ve searched for in the comments.

We would especially love your comments on the structure / taxonomy of the site. Do we have the right categories, attributes, refinement tools, e.g. is the system showing the right values in the navigation on the left? Is the system pulling back any non-relevant items for your queries compared to classic. We need you to be as specific as possible and we’ll address any issues as quickly as we can.

Thanks everyone for your continued passion and engagement on this!

Jeff & the eBay Finding team.
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world_securities
Posts: 377
(1 of 3172)

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 24, 2007 1:27 PM
Interesting that the Playground search results DO NOT show the IDs and feedback of the individual sellers.

Does this mean eBay does not care who sells or what their feedback is? And buyers should make their selections purely on price and not seller reputation?




Everyone needs a hobby. Don't become mine.
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egnatz1
Posts: 138
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Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 24, 2007 2:21 PM
Jeff, I'm a little confused here . I realize it's your job to try to get this piece of junk that you call new search up and running.

But the overall reaction site wide is that we don't want it it doesn't work the way we are used to searching and it looks horrible. We don't want search to try to guess what we want. All we want search to do is to bring up everything that matches our query and let us determine if we are interested in those items and the ability to refine our query from there.

I don't want search to try to think for me I know what I'm looking for and will know when I find it.

If this new search is introduced you will alienate thousands of faithful customers. Why is it that after hundreds if not thousands of people say it doesn't work and that we don't want changes like these that you in your infinite wisdom keep trying to improve it and force it down our throat.

What is wrong with good old boolean search? Seems to work pretty well for a company called Google

As someone else said on another thread you put lipstick on a pig it's still a pig.
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yellowstonelove
Posts: 570
(3 of 3172)

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 24, 2007 2:39 PM
ohforgawdssake Jeff stop it already. Obviously you are NOT listening to us, because EVERYONE is saying scrap this *new* search and stick with the old. Gee how easy is that? It would sure save you a lot of WASTED time and misdirected effort.

I do NOT want ebay "thinking" for me when I do a search. That's just EBAY manipulating the search the way EBAY wants it, and I don't trust that.

It's so dayum simple....here's how search should work: I type in keywords, then EVERYTHING in ebay with those keywords comes up. I can filter it myself after that if too much junk comes up. Got it?
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webpaper
Posts: 1,796
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Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 24, 2007 2:39 PM
What you are describing will drive myself and tens of thousands of other long term users from the site forever. Good luck - I am sure you will enjoy actively looking for replacements.
10 year member
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touch*my*toes
Posts: 416
(5 of 3172)

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 24, 2007 6:11 PM
Multi-choice product finders

You can select more than one value at a timein the new product finders.

This is an often sited limitation of the existing site. For example, on the current search you can only choose one shoe size at a time. In Finding 2.0 we let you choose more than one to see all the items side by side: See how you currently have to navigate separately to find the Size 12 and the size 12.5 shoes.

 
I will say this is an improvement.
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austin_militaria
Posts: 6
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Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 24, 2007 6:12 PM
There seems to be a glitch in the new search ability. I did a title search for “West Point” and it Pulled up 1200+ listings mostly coins that did not have West Point in the title, seems these were minted at West Point and are under the extended description within the lisitng. Makes it very difficult to do a key word title search for West Point Military Academy items. And doing a search for West Point Ring, Howitzer and other items makes it very cumbersome. And putting a –coin in the search could possibly leave out some items of interest.

Thanks,
-Rob
Austin_Militaria
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austin_militaria
Posts: 6
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Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 24, 2007 6:26 PM
Here is another one. Doing a search for "WWII Jacket" brought up this item:

VINTAGE 1950'S LEATHER CAR CLUB JACKET M/L Item number: 290137831388

What does that have to do with WWII?

I do not want to narrow my search to a specific catagory because WWII Jackets are in a varity of catagories from Militaria to Vintage Clothing.

This search engine was not tested to well before it was put into production.
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the_ospreys_nest
Posts: 1,068
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Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 24, 2007 8:33 PM
In my life, I've learned ....
... sometimes less is better than more.
... many times simple is better than convoluted.
... most times if something works, it's best to leave well enough alone.
AND then sometimes, one creates an Edsel!

To Jeff and the eBay Finding team, how will you handle the categories dealing with vintage and antique items? Categorization of these areas alone are in need of much work.

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rockboss2000
Posts: 943
(9 of 3172)

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 24, 2007 9:00 PM
jeffking@ebay.com...

Hmmm... Your "air compressor" (dropping the "s" to match your actual search query) is an unfair representation between the current and test searches.

First, your URL for eBay's current search results for air compressor is an all category search, whereas the "Finding 2.0" search results have already been narrowed down to an "air compressor" category: Link

Instead, for a fair comparison, your "Finding 2.0" search results "findings" should point to all categories also: Link

You may then notice the results page in not helpful in the least... There are no category totals in the left navigation column that would benefit me to make the decision of a good category choice to start my pursuit of a air compressor.

Here's a good example... Say I am searching for a watermelon colored MicroSoft Zune... Some sellers call it "red", and rightly so as MS marks the box "Red"... However, some sellers do occasionally use the proper color name or both... The trouble with searching for a red or watermelon color Zune is that you will get irrelevant results because of red accessories, etc. Consequently, you use a finely tuned search: zune (red,watermelon) -(case,cover,skin)

Currently, there are only two2 available on eBay (both in eBay Stores)... Your "Finding 2.0" search will return the same results... Unfortunately, just as in any search in "Finding 2.0", there is NO way for me to actually determine what my search terms are in order to make them less restrictive or to narrow the search term by blocking irrelevant text found within the item title.

Simply put, "Finding 2.0" is not intuitive, nor easy to navigate... Thumbs down all the way.

:(
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rockboss2000
Posts: 943
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Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 24, 2007 9:18 PM
jeffking@ebay.com...

Don't you think it could be a little confusing when you offer up "Finding 2.0" results and the formats change from one search to another and then at times refuse to allow the searcher to return to an "All Category" search?

This is simply a search hijacking and does nothing for the visitor... The following images have been compressed considerably since I am working from a 1280 X 800 screen:::

Link
Link
Link

:(
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touch*my*toes
Posts: 416
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Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 24, 2007 10:29 PM
In some cases we currently surface ‘product finders’ (such as the cell phone finder) and we’ve seen overwhelming evidence that buyers that use the product finder navigation find/bid/buy more often. It is this insight that is driving us to improve this across the site.
 
Can someone please direct me to the "product finders" referenced above?
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touch*my*toes
Posts: 416
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Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 24, 2007 10:51 PM
We’re also trying to accommodate the different ways that buyers may think about or browse to results instead of forcing buyers to understand the single category structure. For example, you can find the SAME items in both Cameras & Photo --> Photo Printers, Scanner, Suppliers--> Scanners and in Computer & Networking ---> Scanners. Try it on Finding 2.0
 
Jeff - I don't know if you noticed another thread regarding a search for Vintage Buttons. When I run a search for "Vintage Buttons" on the playground, using the search field at the top of the page, the resulting search result page looks like this:

Link
 
In little bitty black letters at the top, it states there are over 15k items available. The "view all items" is not clickable. You can click underneath on the "ending time" links, which are in different colors. The difference in color and font does not make it obvious that those 3 items are referencing the same thing.
 
Immediately below that there are dark blue bold, obviously clickable, links showing only 4 categories.
   
Under that, at the FAR right in small blue regular font is a clickable link to show all categories.
 
Under that are HUGE boxes, Dark blue, bolded, clickable links, once again only showing 4 categories.
   
Can you please tell me what are the intended results when ebay is VIGOROUSLY presenting only the most populated categories to potential buyers?
  
What happens when the less than savvy buyers don't notice that itty bitty, regular font, non-clickable text that says "all items", fail to see any correlation between that black text and the blue links below....while they are being steered only in the direction of highly populated categories.....they miss out on THOUSANDS of items?
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glenda
Posts: 22,608
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Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 24, 2007 11:41 PM
Hi touch*my*toes

Click here and look to the left - that's an example of a product finder.



Glenda

--
V3 You can write to eBay support by clicking on Help then Contact Us.
It's hard to tell where the road will lead, just looking at it from the one end.
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glenda
Posts: 22,608
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Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 24, 2007 11:57 PM
Hi again touch*my*toes,

Keep in mind they are testing different versions. When I click on your link, I see this page: Link

Also, there are only 2 listings that have the word "button" on that first page of 50 listings. That's not good....



Glenda

--
V3 You can write to eBay support by clicking on Help then Contact Us.
It's hard to tell where the road will lead, just looking at it from the one end.
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