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Last Post Feb 10, 2009 12:34 PM by: marnisue@ebay.com
Replies: 3,172
jeffking@ebay.com
Posts: 105

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 24, 2007 12:00 PM
Hello all,

Thanks for all of your continued comments on the Playground and the test. We’re committed to getting your feedback and engagement. I thought it made sense to outline again some of the issues with the current search that we’re trying to address with the new system.

So, what are some of the major things we’re trying to improve?

Improved ‘recall’
  • Recall is the term for the items that get returned for a particular search query. Try searching for something on eBay now and in Finding 2.0 (playground) and usually you’ll find more stuff.
  • For example, “size 12 puma shoes” on current search = 129 items, but in Finding 2.0 it’s 267. We think that searching for “size 12 puma shoes” should show return ALL the size 12 puma shoes on eBay.
  • BTW, I compare the two systems side by side all the time by having Link in Internet Explorer and Link in Firefox. Since they use separate cookies you can keep each up and compare the same queries between the two experiences.


More useful / relevant navigation
  • The navigation on eBay today is mostly based on eBay’s category structure, e.g. Matching Categories In some cases we currently surface ‘product finders’ (such as the cell phone finder) and we’ve seen overwhelming evidence that buyers that use the product finder navigation find/bid/buy more often. It is this insight that is driving us to improve this across the site.
  • Take a look at ‘air compressors’ on on the current search vs. Finding 2.0. We think that showing navigation by Make, Power Source, Storage Capacity, Horsepower is a much more useful use of navigation than refining down into categories. We can do this by pulling out the useful attributes that sellers are already providing in their listings and showing them to buyers in an easy to use way.


Multi-choice product finders


More ways to find what you want

Multiple paths to the same inventory
  • We’re also trying to accommodate the different ways that buyers may think about or browse to results instead of forcing buyers to understand the single category structure. For example, you can find the SAME items in both Cameras & Photo --> Photo Printers, Scanner, Suppliers--> Scanners and in Computer & Networking ---> Scanners. Try it on Finding 2.0
  • This current limitation is caused by having only a ‘single dimension’ in eBay’s category structure. Sellers must choose a single category for an item or list the item in two categories at twice the price. We recognize that Buyers who’ve ‘mastered’ the eBay category structure can find this a useful tool. But we know that most buyers don’t bother and end up browsing or constraining their search only one way or another which causes them to not see items that actually exist on the site. For example, today there are 170 scanners in photo and 1489 different scanners in computers and networking


A few things we’re still working on:


  • Result Set layout

    We’re not happy with the look and feel of the new (or existing) result set (how the list of items look after your search) We’ve taken a ton of feedback from the community on the test we did of this last fall and are releasing a simpler version of this in just a few weeks. We are adding customization at this time as well (right now we only have a single layout of the page)

  • Search Features

    We’re not done adding all the features to the new system / test. We made the decision to get the new version of the search out in front of the community quickly, even before we got all the features built. I’d count this as the largest complaint we’ve heard (“I can’t find completed items!”) but this was done in order to get feedback on the features we have completed. Here are some of the items we’re still working on:

  • Completed items – Agree this is a must have feature! We want competed items to be even easier to find and use than before.

  • Favorite searches – we agree. you should be able to add/edit your favorites right in line with search. Coming soon.

  • Stores integration – stores need to be easy to find and we need to return stores items in a consistent manner. We haven’t finished all the stores integration work.

  • Cross border items integration – Inventory from other eBay sites should be available and consistently integrated.



  • Taxonomy / classification

    These are the terms used to describe the category structure and item attributes that will drive the navigation / refinement of the site for buyers. This is literally something that we’ll always be working on improving and can really use your expertise here. We’ve been making a lot of changes based on your feedback already.


How can you help / provide feedback?


We’d love & need your feedback on this. The site we have up now on Link is meant to be an environment where we can show the community an early iteration of the product for the purpose of getting feedback. There is a survey link at the very top of the page, please be sure to include the query you’ve searched for in the comments.

We would especially love your comments on the structure / taxonomy of the site. Do we have the right categories, attributes, refinement tools, e.g. is the system showing the right values in the navigation on the left? Is the system pulling back any non-relevant items for your queries compared to classic. We need you to be as specific as possible and we’ll address any issues as quickly as we can.

Thanks everyone for your continued passion and engagement on this!

Jeff & the eBay Finding team.
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nikkijahera
Posts: 2
(45 of 3172)

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 29, 2007 9:50 AM
Not often I post, and I appreciate I am not a big user or seller on ebay. I enjoy browsing for items, I buy some stuff, I sell some stuff.

The new search function was imposed on me today, I only realised something was up when I ran my stored search for Vans 5.5 which usually returns abour 15 or so results and always of the shoes and size I require. This time I was greeted by pages of items which had nothing to do with shoes, I got to see mini vans (automotive) random branded training shoes, vans where in there, but not in 5.5 but in all other kinds of sizes. Basically I tried a few times and gave up trying to find what had previously been a simple and quick bolean search.

So I visited these boards to find out what was happening, realised that this was an 'improvement' I had been subjected to in a test capacity, found I could opt out and immediately did so.

Ebay, leave it alone, or at the very least run 2 search engines. 1, this hateful new developement, and 2 the trusty old version so many of us know and love and are quite capable of narrowing the search down with keywords should we so choose. Let your users choose their preferance rather than force us to take something we do not like nor want.

I have never had a problem, ever, finding what I wanted on ebay, but then I can type more than 1 word in a search box, possibly this 'improvement' is aimed at people with less fingers or capacity for using a keyboard instead of a mouse!!

Thank you.
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robertcausey
Posts: 22
(46 of 3172)

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 29, 2007 11:13 AM
Jeff,

A few comments on the new search and some of the recent search feature enhancements.

1. What did you guys do. Buy and drink vast quanties of the Microsoft kool-aide. Microsoft for years as been trying to "smarten" their products by introducing features that try to "guess" what I really want to acomplish, and totally ignore what I implecitily asked for. For an example of this, try searching the microsoft knowlege base with a specific seach term and fill out all of the paramenters, such as os version, product, etc. The returned results will usually return tons of results that have absolutly nothing to do whith what was searched on. This "feature" makes the microsoft kb pretty useless for targeted searches. Additionaly when products such as Word try to "guess" at how I want something done vs what I implicitly told it to do word gets it wrong an amazing 100% of the time.

Long story short, I know what I what. I expect that the software or system will react to what I implicitly state and not "guess" at what I really want.

The formus are filled with examples, but surfice it to say that if I were to search on "A" I expect search results containing only "A" or "No A Found". I do not expect or appreciate seeing results for "B" "C" or "Sort of A"

This Microsoft approach is a huge time and productivity killer for me and has resulted in me moving from Microsoft being my first choice to Microsoft being my dead last choice having exausted all other options.

I love Ebay. Don't force me to go somewhere else. Change the search engine and I will be forced to leave. I don't know how much clearer I can be.

2. Somewhere along the line the search feature introduced a forced spelling correction to the search feature. I usually search for very specific technology items that use very specific industry and trade terms. This new spelling corrector attemts to fix my correct term by replacing it, resulting in lots of listings for garbage that has nothing to do with my search. For example today I searched on the term "airspot", which is a name of a product manufactured and sold by D-Link. The spelling corrector changed "airspot" to "airport" and proceeded to return over a hundred listings that had nothing to do with the product I was looking for. If the intent of this feature is to do what the grocery stores do, namely shuffle stuff around so that I spend more time on the site looking through listings in the hope that you can increse "impulse" purchases on items I happen across while seaching for things I truly are interested in, consider this..

There are two grocery stores close to my home. In one their layout has stayed pretty static over the years. The other constantly moves things around, in an attempt to keep patrons in the store longer (IE buy more stuff). I refuse to shop at the latter as I hate wasting my time having to wonder around the store looking for basic items. I however regularly visit the first store. While the first store doesn't maximise their take from me on every visit, they do enjoy seeing me as a regular customer. The second store has lost me as a patron forever. While the second store maximised their take from me short term, the have lost revenue from me long term.

So in summary, let me say this about the spelling correcting routine .... TURN IT OFF !!!, or at least make it optional.
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crystalgreen2
Posts: 1
(47 of 3172)

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 29, 2007 1:48 PM
I hate this new search "experience!" PLEASE just bring the old system back. I'm ready to cancel my account! Finding stuff is too hard, and it's just NOT ANY FUN!
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spycomics
Posts: 8
(48 of 3172)

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 29, 2007 5:14 PM
I just wanted to add my voice to the many that don't like the new search.
So far, I've noticed that I cannot easily look up completed items or Store Inventory only. These are searches that I use most often and now I have to jump through hoops to use them.
No sir, I don't like it.
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lunacie
Posts: 4
(49 of 3172)

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 29, 2007 9:32 PM
This is the absolute worst thing I've EVER seen eBay do. For the type of products I sell (vintage chronograph watches of a certain era) the search is now absolutely useless, my _REAL_ vintage chronographs are now hidden among vast numbers of quartz and digital chronographs that have nothing to do with what customers envision when they look for vintage watches and complications of a certain era.

I'm shocked, and you are pulling the rug out from under my business with this. I sell in excess of $15,000 per month, and I will pull _EVERYTHING_ from eBay because it's a complete waste of my time and money now. You're asking me to pay money, but you obfuscate searches and make it impossible for people to find my products. Forget it, this new search is a joke and the worst screw up I've EVER seen online anywhere.

I'm furious. Fix it now, or the three remaining listings I have will be my last. Frankly, I want my money back on my current listings, because NOBODY WILL BE ABLE TO FIND THEM, SO WHAT"S THE POINT?!?!?!?!


SINCERELY,

John T.
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jeffking@ebay.com
Posts: 105
(50 of 3172)

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 29, 2007 10:49 PM
Good Evening all,

First let me say thank you all for the thoughtful comments about the new search.

Our intention of getting the new designs, categories, classification, etc. 'out there' as early as possible was to have a conversation with everyone about what the right things are to do in the area's we've rolled out, e.g. which of these features are working, how can they be improved, and in what categories or queries. I've feared that instead of sparking a meaningful dialog on user experience, taxonomy & classification, that we had spun hopelessly into the land of angry 'Where is my COMPLETED ITEMS!!!? threads for features we're building but haven't finished yet. In any case, I'm thrilled that we're here now and I hope we can keep this up. I'll agree that we could have done a better job communicating what was done and what was coming to alleviate the pain here. I'll take responsibility for that.

A couple of clarifying comments: My team's job is not to launch the new search. We're focused on improving the buyer experience to make shopping/browsing/finding on eBay more fun, more relevant, more compelling. We measure success by quantitative measures such as buyer engagement (Searches, View Items, Watches), Bids/Bins per user session, Bids/Bins per user per week, month, repeat visits, etc. We also measure qualitative 'fun', easy, relevant, etc. And we do measure these metrics by category as well. (e.g. selling more cell phones and less collectibles isn't' going to be success for us) There are tens of millions of visits to the site per day, 250 million searches across 28 million unique keywords per day. Too many users are coming to the site today and leaving without finding what they're looking for, even when it's there. if we didn't believe that we could significantly improve the finding experience by all measures.


Re: Collectibles,
I hope it goes without saying that collectibles and auctions are still the heart of eBay and considered by everyone to be critical for our short and long term success. If not I'll say it. Our favorite eBay stories are about the collectible, unique, the weird and wonderful. (BTW, did you see the guy who found his baby book on eBay recently? incredible) I particularly liked menagerie1's post on collectibles & fun, because it reflects a lot of the sentiment of eBay in general about how important this area is to the company... As several of you also point out, its an incredibly hard area to 'classify' with the right categories/attributes, etc. To some extent this category alone demonstrates several weaknesses in the existing single dimension category structure and item specifics. For sure, eBay has no hope of creating and publishing all the right categories and item specifics to satisfy every Collectibles buyer and seller.

So Naugagirl, I'm not suggesting that categories aren't very relevant for areas like collectibles, only that item specifics are very relevant for these other 'commodities' areas. I'll agree with naugagirl and others that the new search doesn't go far enough to improve Collectibles. We'll continue to work on improving the category structure here until we have a better solution.

To this end, next week we're launching something really exciting (for those of you that find taxonomy exciting) called "Custom item specifics" The product will allow sellers to specify their own custom item specifics (the names and values) instead of relying on eBay to provide the structure for items. The idea here is that sellers know their items best, (I'm hearing a collective 'no duh' right now) and that eventually these seller specified attributes will get indexed in search and drive the site navigation/refinement. When we launch this next week we'll post a thread here and I'd love to hear your feedback on how you think it will impact today's search and Finding 2.0. We think this is a huge step towards turning over classification to the community. So in terms of investing in Collectibles, this is a huge part of the strategy.. and it's not tied soley to the new finding experience we're testing right now. Sellers and buyers can benefit from this new capability in both the old experience and the new experience.

Also, new search does not rely entirely on item specifics to be functional. Admittedly the structured data found in the categories with good item specifics improve the new experience dramatically. We're pretty happy with how this is performing in places like ipods, cell phones, etc (so called 'commodities' in this thread). As menagerie1 also points out in his 'disclaimer' its important to have a relevant experience across each of the categories such that users engage, buy and return to find everyone else's items. More ipods, cell phones, socks and air compressors sales = more postcards and antique button sales. (and vice versa)


Rockboss2000,
Regarding the search terms. "Removing" the search terms from the search box and displaying those in the aspect navigation is part of the experiment... The intention is to represent all of your search terms in one place in the experience so you can more easily see what's shaping your results. This also encourages refinement using the navigation rather than adding more search terms, which should lead to more relevant results.

Also, your screenshots show 3 different iterations that would be exposed to separate groups, it would potentially be confusing for users to see each of these in a single session, however a user will only see one of these for all of their sessions. We're now testing only versions of the new experience that have performed well for buyers and sellers.

enough for now, sorry for the long post & thanks again all for the great feedback!

Jeff & the Finding team
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world_securities
Posts: 377
(51 of 3172)

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 30, 2007 12:01 AM
jeffking@ebay.com
I've feared that instead of sparking a meaningful dialog on user experience, taxonomy & classification, that we had spun hopelessly into the land of angry


Given that out of 48 posts between your first and last one, you've chosen to answer only two (2) posters, what do you expect?

With those numbers, by definition you're conducting a monologue. When you actually start conducting a one on one dialog, with eBay SELLERS reporting positive results, then the "land of angry" sellers will cease.


"What do you want, you moon-faced assassin of joy?"
Ambassador Londo Mollari, Babylon 5




Everyone needs a hobby. Don't become mine.
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egnatz1
Posts: 142
(52 of 3172)

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 30, 2007 12:10 AM
Jeff thanks for coming back and providing some answers. Please continue to come back to this thread and provide answers and updates.
Too many times we have been asked our opinions about what you are testing and a pink never returns to the thread. That happened the last time you ran a test search and it just led to anger and aggravation .

My question right now is why would you put the new search live to the site without all the features of old search .

When someone is searching for something and the new search comes up and they can't do everything they could in the old search they just get aggravated I know I do.

I'm lucky though I know I can opt out at the bottom and continue my search using the search engine that works.

The casual user who has know idea he is seeing a test sees an unfamiliar page and can't do what he used to in search gets frustrated and leaves .

How much has this test which was supposed to run 6 weeks or so and is now into its second full month cost sellers?

How many of us have listed items which were never seen because someone couldn't figure out your new and incomplete search.

I'm lucky I sell for extra money and to feed my collection.

but for the people who rely on Ebay to make a living your test of an uncompleted product could have cost them hundreds if not thousands of dollars.
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glenda
Posts: 23,188
(53 of 3172)

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 30, 2007 1:11 AM
Did a search for catstuff The response was:

We couldn't find results for your search, so we tried cat stuff.

The text is too small to be noticeable, and there needs to be an Undo so a person can verify that there really were no results.

But, I think I like this wording better than the wording used in the current search.



Glenda

--
V3 You can write to eBay support by clicking on Help then Contact Us.
It's hard to tell where the road will lead, just looking at it from the one end.
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webpaper
Posts: 1,796
(54 of 3172)

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 30, 2007 1:51 AM
Jeff,
With all due respect, Sir. Please go to one of your local community colleges and take a reading comprehension course - because you obviously have either not read or do not understand the thousands of posts accross these boards.
Apparently all of us in the collectibles arena are doomed because of a lack of the basic ability to read and comprehend. God knows I have tried with my college students but it is way too late.
Goodbye Ebay, it's been nice.
DOOMED
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dolls_of_yore
Posts: 281
(55 of 3172)

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 30, 2007 7:34 AM
Even a giant corporation like Coke was willing to admit it had made a mistake with the New Coke and brought back the Coke Classic that the consumers wanted. It made the company seem "human" and increased consumer loyalty.
Prove to us that there are real humans working at eBay.
Listen to us. Bring back eBay Classic.
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postcardsandmore
Posts: 7,693
(56 of 3172)

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 30, 2007 8:14 AM
But, Coke never fully recovered the market share after the fiasco...and that was after admitting they made a mistake.

Imagine what will happen here when they will not even consider they are making a mistake.
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postcardsandmore
Posts: 7,693
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Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 30, 2007 8:19 AM
Jeff....

So, if we have to make our own Item specifics to assist in being found in search what happens to all 3rd party vendors?

Will TL be updated to allow us to do it through them?

Yikes! It just gets worse and worse and worse!
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postcardsandmore
Posts: 7,693
(58 of 3172)

Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 30, 2007 8:20 AM
Because no way in he## will I ever ever ever use the SYI form! What a nightmare.
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postcardsandmore
Posts: 7,693
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Feedback on Finding 2.0 (New Search and Browse)

Jul 30, 2007 8:50 AM
Jeff....does your program have the ability differentiate between people who pop in to check on a price of something they want to list vs potential buyers?

And, sellers who pop in to check on their own items?

I know at least a dozen times a day I do a search simply to see if the item is selling and how to price it, and then more to see what competitors are doing.

Then, lots more to see if I have a bid on anything.

Maybe they "think" buyers aren't finding anything when really, it isn't buyers searching to begin with.

There are millions of sellers. We all check many many times a day.

And, what happened to that old story during SIS....too many items returned?

Now there are none?

What are you doing here! Whatever it is, it is wrong!

Search worked fine before SIS. It never worked the same after and every enhancement has only made things worse.
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