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Last Post Jul 24, 2009 1:49 AM by: richie_blue
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nanapong1
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Re: Land where Flight 93 went down being confiscated by government

Jul 3, 2009 6:39 PM
Well i guess that pretty much settles it then.
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sjamhcd
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Re: Land where Flight 93 went down being confiscated by government

Jul 3, 2009 6:42 PM
Bin Laden tape a fake, Swiss lab says
Scientists compared recording to 20 other tapes of terror chief
Link
also mirrored here
Link

The Fake 2004
Bin Laden Video Tape
Link

Link



The Fake 2001 bin Laden Video Tape
Link

Mistranslated Osama bin Laden Video - the German Press Investigates
Link

On 20 December 2001, German TV channel "Das Erste" broadcast its analysis of the White House's translation of the OBL video that George Bush has called a "confession of guilt". On the show "Monitor", two independent translators and an expert on oriental studies found the White House's translation not only to be inaccurate, but "manipulative".

Arabist Dr. Abdel El M. Husseini, one of the translators, states, "I have carefully examined the Pentagon's translation. This translation is very problematic. At the most important places where it is held to prove the guilt of Bin Laden, it is not identical with the Arabic."

Researcher: Bin Laden's beard is real, video is not
Link


New Bin Laden "Confession" Tape: Fake Like The Rest?
Osama flip flops and admits he was solely responsible for 9/11
Link

The December 2001 "Fat nosed" Bin Laden video, was magically found in a house in Jalalabad after anti-Taliban forces moved in. It featured a fat Osama laughing and joking about how he'd carried out 9/11. The video was also mistranslated in order to manipulate viewer opinion and featured "Bin Laden" praising two of the hijackers, only he got their names wrong.

This Osama also used the wrong hand to write with and wore gold rings, a practice totally in opposition to the Muslim faith.

Despite the fact that the man in the video looks nothing like Bin Laden, the CIA stood by it and declared it to be the "9/11 confession video".

Shortly after the 9/11, Bin Laden had denied any involvement in the attacks on at least two separate occasions. Furthermore, the London Independent reported a claim attributed to a friend of one of the six men accused of plotting to detonate bombs on London's underground tube system on July 21 2005, that suggested that Osama bin Laden personally told hook-handed radical cleric Abu Hamza that Al-Qaeda was not behind the attacks of September 11, 2001.
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Re: Land where Flight 93 went down being confiscated by government

Jul 3, 2009 7:25 PM
President Jimmy Carter's National Security Advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski visiting 'his boy', Osama Bin Laden, in training with the Pakistan Army, 1981.Photo originally scanned from the New York Village Voice. Photo credited to the Sygma/Corbis Agency, Paris.
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Brzezinski and Tim Osman (Osama bin Laden) discuss the string of Jihads that Zbigniew never regrets.


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Brzezinski's Interview with Le Nouvel Observateur

Le Nouvel Observateur: Former CIA director Robert Gates states in his memoirs: The American secret services began six months before the Soviet intervention to support the Mujahideen [in Afghanistan]. At that time you were president Carters security advisor; thus you played a key role in this affair. Do you confirm this statement?

Zbigniew Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version, the CIA's support for the Mujahideen began in 1980, i.e. after the Soviet army's invasion of Afghanistan on 24 December 1979. But the reality, which was kept secret until today, is completely different: Actually it was on 3 July 1979 that president Carter signed the first directive for the secret support of the opposition against the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And on the same day I wrote a note, in which I explained to the president that this support would in my opinion lead to a military intervention by the Soviets.

Le Nouvel Observateur: Despite this risk you were a supporter of this covert action? But perhaps you expected the Soviets to enter this war and tried to provoke it?

Zbigniew Brzezinski: It's not exactly like that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene but we knowingly increased the probability that they would do it.

Le Nouvel Observateur: When the Soviets justified their intervention with the statement that they were fighting against a secret US interference in Afghanistan, nobody believed them. Nevertheless there was a core of truth to this...Do you regret nothing today?

Zbigniew Brzezinski: Regret what? This secret operation was an excellent idea. It lured the Russians into the Afghan trap, and you would like me to regret that? On the day when the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote president Carter, in essence: "We now have the opportunity to provide the USSR with their Viet Nam war." Indeed for ten years Moscow had to conduct a war that was intolerable for the regime, a conflict which involved the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet Empire.

Le Nouvel Observateur: And also, don't you regret having helped future terrorists, having given them weapons and advice?

Zbigniew Brzezinski: What is most important for world history? The Taliban or the fall of the Soviet Empire? Some Islamic hotheads or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

Le Nouvel Observateur: "Some hotheads?" But it has been said time and time again: today Islamic fundamentalism represents a world-wide threat...

Zbigniew Brzezinski: Rubbish! It's said that the West has a global policy regarding Islam. That's hogwash: there is no global Islam. Let's look at Islam in a rational and not a demagogic or emotional way. It is the first world religion with 1.5 billion adherents. But what is there in common between fundamentalist Saudi Arabia, moderate Morocco, militaristic Pakistan, pro-Western Egypt and secularized Central Asia? Nothing more than that which connects the Christian countries...


Ex-Security Chief Brzezinski's Interview makes clear:
The Muslim Terrorist Apparatus was Created by US Intelligence as a Geopolitical Weapon


Le Nouvel Observateur's Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser
Published 15-21 January 1998
Translated by Jean Martineau

Below is our translation of an interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski. It is important for three reasons.

First, it flatly contradicts the official US justification for giving billions of dollars to the mujahideen in Afghanistan in the 1980s, namely that the US and Saudi Arabia were defending so-called freedom fighters against Soviet aggression.

Not so, says Brzezinski. He confirms what opponents have charged: that the US began covert sponsorship of Muslim extremists five months *before* the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. He says that after President Carter authorized the covert action:

"I explained to the president that this support would in my opinion lead to a military intervention by the Soviets."

Second, the interview is instructive concerning so-called "conspiracy theory." To be sure, there are plenty of nutty theories out there. And of course, there are plenty of just plain wrong theories. But as Brzezinski demonstrates, the US foreign policy establishment did, for want of a better word, conspire. Even as they claimed to oppose Muslim extremism, they knowingly fomented it *as a weapon of policy.* And they lied about what they were doing, pretending they were helping freedom fighters resist an invasion. In other words, deceit on two levels.

One must ask oneself: if the US foreign policy Establishment used Muslim extremism as a weapon once, how can one argue *in principle* that they would not use it again?

We say they *have* used it again; that they have used it continuously; and that we are seeing the fruits of this policy. Most recently we have seen the real essence of the Brzezinski doctrine in the horrendous events this past week in Russia (culminating in the school attack) and Israel (the double bus bombing).
Read more: Link

see also:
When Osama Bin Ladin Was Tim Osman
Link

Al Qaida does NOT exist
Link
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sjamhcd
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Re: Land where Flight 93 went down being confiscated by government

Jul 3, 2009 8:01 PM
Two fake Bin Ladens, but note he looks younger, less gaunt and with a (fake looking) black beard 3 years later
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"Fatty" Bin Laden vs. real Bin laden
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Here I lightened and lengthened fatty Bin Laden's face.
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Here I darkened and fattened real Bin Laden's face
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Real Bin Laden
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Younger Bin Laden. Note hawkish, crooked, long, large nose
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Below are still images from Bin Laden videos released in 2001. The images are in chronological order. A point to note about Bin Laden is he was suffering renal failure...

Renal dialysis -- talking about hemodialysis -- is something that really is reserved for patients in end-stage renal failure. That means their kidneys have just completely shut down. The most common cause of something like that would be something like diabetes and hypertension. Once that's happened, if you're separated from your dialysis machine -- and incidentally, dialysis machines require electricity, they're going to require clean water, they're going to require a sterile setting -- infection is a huge risk with that. If you don't have all those things and a functioning dialysis machine, it's unlikely that you'd survive beyond several days or a week at the most. [CNN]

...therefore his health in the videos is very relevant.

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Videos 1, 2 and 4 show the real bin Laden, video 3 shows the "lucky find" bin Laden.

Points of note regarding the videos:

Beard color below bottom lip
Video #1 White
Video #2 White
Video #3 Black
Video #4 White

Jews/Israel/Palestine mentioned
Video #1 Yes
Video #2 Yes
Video #3 No
Video #4 Yes

Muslim suffering mentioned
Video #1 Yes
Video #2Yes
Video #3 No
Video #4 Yes

Health
Video #1 Good
Video #2 Deteriorating
Video #3 Good
Video #4 Poor


The "bin Laden" in video #3 has the wrong beard color, and his views and health are inconsistent with those of the real bin Laden. Also, if video #3 was a true bin Laden confession then why didn't he attribute 9/11 to avenging the suffering of Muslims, especially since America was attacking the country in which he was living?

The poor image quality of video #3 stands out when compared to the genuine bin Laden videos. There is also excessive noise on the video's audio track, making it impossible to really hear what is being said. Given that the tape was recorded in an area supposedly devoid of audio urban signature there should have been little ambient noise, yet the speech is masked with a great deal of noise.

This is also the video where he is seen writing with his right hand, when bin Laden is left-handed.

There is clearly good reason to doubt the November 9 tape.
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richie_blue
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Re: Land where Flight 93 went down being confiscated by government

Jul 3, 2009 8:20 PM
363 proves what?

Does the Jihad News Bureau issue press releases with recording and release dates for these things.

I would like to see one tape with him holding something that could be nailed down, such as a newspaper.
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91xv920rh
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Re: Land where Flight 93 went down being confiscated by government

Jul 3, 2009 8:41 PM
PS: Even though I flew to DC on a new plane with wireless internet, etc., and used a top of the line cell phone, and the fact there are way more cell towers than in 2001 and more sophisticated cell phone technology than in 2001, I could not get a signal the entire flight until I was down to 2200 feet and 220 mph, about to land, and even then it was only for brief moments.

91 sez:
I don't believe you. Period.


Remember when you said the hijackers could fly by GPS? The portable GPS unit I had did not work at all, not even on the ground at the airport. It tried to latch onto a number of satellites (there were about 10 in the area) once we were up to about 25k feet, but never succeeded. I had a window seat, and held both devices to the window. Nada.

I have a GPS. Takes some time to find a satellite under the best of conditions.

Feel free to peruse the writings of actual pilots on some of the pilot forums in which they discuss this very thing.

THEY got them to work. Guess it is a case of operator error in your case.


In addition, last time I checked the COCKPIT where Mr. ATTA was flying has FAR MORE winodw area than a seat near the rear of an airliner.

A genius would have known that.

91 sez:
I don't believe you. Period.

You truck with liars. You have repeated lies. You have lied about what I have posted. You have lied about what is written in the NIST. You have championed others that lie.

WHY should I believe you on this technology update?


:^O So Comrade duckhead doesn't believe I even went to DC, and 91 doesn't believe I tested out the cell phone and GPS. My kids think you're both nuts. I suppose I should have had my son videotape the google map on the seatback, which gives speed and altitude, and my cell and GPS unit. I'm guessing you don't fly much, or never thought to try it out yourself. But if you do, I won't accept anything less than a videotape recording as proof. :-p

Personally I don't care what you claim. You have posted known lies repeatedly and have been shown to be technologically ignorant and now technologically inept.

YOU not being able to do what others have done for years is more a reflection on YOU than anything else.

BTW - More and more airliner allow the use of GPS on flights...
Link

Seems like YOU are one of the FEW that can't seem to get them to work.

Genius........... Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

+++

Post (359 of 363)

Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks

Which was refuted later.... Add to that the statements of NUMEROUS other Al Qaeda personnel.

The Fake 2004
Bin Laden Video Tape


OF COURSE IT IS FAKE... It HAS TO BE.

Whether or not people far better informed and trained than you say it is real.

Whether or not there is adequate evidence to link Al Qaeda to the attacks... IT MUST BE ALL FAKE...

THE WHOLE WORLD IS IN ON IT!

Either that or you are wrong and thousands of people who actually investigated 9/11.

Now what is more likely?

President Jimmy Carter's National Security Advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski visiting 'his boy', Osama Bin Laden, in training with the Pakistan Army, 1981.Photo originally scanned from the New York Village Voice. Photo credited to the Sygma/Corbis Agency, Paris

Shall I post pictures of the Allies during WWII?

Oh, that's right, sides change, allies become enemies. WELCOME TO HISTORY 101.

A genius would understand that this happens from time to time.

We even provided some support to Ho Chi Minh when he was anti Japanese, prior to his scrapes with the French.

I'm sorry...... Where was THIS side step supposed to lead?

Another RED HERRING?

This much Herring and you should be a Norwegian Trawler Captain...

Two fake Bin Ladens, but note he looks younger, less gaunt and with a (fake looking) black beard 3 years later

Yes, yes, They are ALL FAKE!

Because some blogidiot sez so.

Why do I say that?

Because you are no longer even thinking............

Simply throwing MORE copy & paste carp against the wall.....

I am tired of addressing the same idiocy over and over again...

When you come back WITH AN INTELLIGENT AND COGENT THEORY THAT ADDRESSES THE FACTS THEN LETS TALK.

OTHERWISE I WILL SIMPLY STATE THAT WHICH YOU HAVE DEMONSTRATED.......

You don't think beyond what some conspiracy site tells you. I don't think you CAN think beyond what you are given.

You blither about others not seeing beyond the "Official Theory" but are completely brainlocked into repeating the same idiocy.

You CHOOSE NOT to think about the whole event.

You DO NOT give an alternative that makes sense.

.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts.”
Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Warning, this poster does not suffer fools gladly.
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sjamhcd
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Re: Land where Flight 93 went down being confiscated by government

Jul 4, 2009 12:53 AM
THEY got them to work. Guess it is a case of operator error in your case.

No error. It was clearly searching for satellites to latch onto, with a map of each satellite's location and a bar graph showing rates of zero to perhaps 60% loaded, and as we went along would switch the screen to more or fewer satellites it was trying to contact.


YOU not being able to do what others have done for years is more a reflection on YOU than anything else.

Well, I have a much more sophisticated cell phone than was available in 2001, there are many more cell towers now than 2001, and I've tried it on every flight I've been on, with two different cell phones. I've had GPS in my cars for years, and satellite radio at home and in my cars, plus a portable. Your inability to accept anything I say as true is more a reflection on your paranoid mind than anything else.

BTW - More and more airliner allow the use of GPS on flights...

The earliest date I see is 'as of 11/25/03', for Brussels Airlines, and most dates shown are between 2007 and 2009.


I have a GPS. Takes some time to find a satellite under the best of conditions.

Well, there you go. < rolls eyes >

Personally I don't care what you claim. You have posted known lies repeatedly and have been shown to be technologically ignorant and now technologically inept.

In your tiny, paranoid mind, maybe. Your calling me a liar doesn't make it true - except in your tiny, paranoid mind.

Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks

Which was refuted later....

by fake videos.

Whether or not people far better informed and trained than you say it is real.

I pointed out experts that say it isn't. Your 'expert' is your government, lying to you again as usual.

Two fake Bin Ladens, but note he looks younger, less gaunt and with a (fake looking) black beard 3 years later

Yes, yes, They are ALL FAKE!

as you can see by the photos.
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91xv920rh
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Re: Land where Flight 93 went down being confiscated by government

Jul 4, 2009 12:15 PM
No error. It was clearly searching for satellites to latch onto, with a map of each satellite's location and a bar graph showing rates of zero to perhaps 60% loaded, and as we went along would switch the screen to more or fewer satellites it was trying to contact.

Then you are simply unlucky. Look around. People everywhere are getting THEIR GPS to work.

And I notice you don't speak to "In addition, last time I checked the COCKPIT where Mr. ATTA was flying has FAR MORE winodw area than a seat near the rear of an airliner. "

Well, I have a much more sophisticated cell phone than was available in 2001, there are many more cell towers now than 2001, and I've tried it on every flight I've been on, with two different cell phones. I've had GPS in my cars for years, and satellite radio at home and in my cars, plus a portable. Your inability to accept anything I say as true is more a reflection on your paranoid mind than anything else.

Again, that YOU cannot get YOUR toys to work while OTHERS can is not a product of a paranoid mind.

Though what YOU make of this fact IS indicative of a paranoid mind.


BTW - More and more airliner allow the use of GPS on flights...

The earliest date I see is 'as of 11/25/03', for Brussels Airlines, and most dates shown are between 2007 and 2009.

And those are the dates the ALLOWED the use of GPS.

Are you arguing Atta would have NOT used a GPS due to airline restrictions? WOW, maybe they should have told him flying into buildings was against SOP as well.

Well, there you go. < rolls eyes >

Takes some time. But mine works.

And I notice you don't speak to "In addition, last time I checked the COCKPIT where Mr. ATTA was flying has FAR MORE winodw area than a seat near the rear of an airliner. "

Personally I don't care what you claim. You have posted known lies repeatedly and have been shown to be technologically ignorant and now technologically inept.

In your tiny, paranoid mind, maybe. Your calling me a liar doesn't make it true - except in your tiny, paranoid mind.

I guess "tiny, paranoid mind" is your parrot point of the day.

I call you a liar based on the lies you repeat. Period.

Even if I had a "tiny, paranoid mind" it is YOUR WORDS that mark you as a serial liar.

Either that or a "genius" completely ignorant of what you post.

Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks

Which was refuted later....

by fake videos.

I notice you left of a VERY important point... "Add to that the statements of NUMEROUS other Al Qaeda personnel. "

Now WHO said they were fake?

Whether or not people far better informed and trained than you say it is real.


I pointed out experts that say it isn't. Your 'expert' is your government, lying to you again as usual.

WHO WERE THEY AGAIN?

.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts.”
Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Warning, this poster does not suffer fools gladly.
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91xv920rh
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Re: Land where Flight 93 went down being confiscated by government

Jul 7, 2009 7:48 AM
Bumping for the GPS meister.........

.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts.”
Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Warning, this poster does not suffer fools gladly.
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sjamhcd
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Re: Land where Flight 93 went down being confiscated by government

Jul 7, 2009 3:04 PM
WeAreChangeLA delivers scientific proof of TREASON to members of Congress and other D.C. players... day one.

Link

More installments to follow.
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91xv920rh
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Re: Land where Flight 93 went down being confiscated by government

Jul 9, 2009 11:28 PM
Well.........

Was expecting Wile E. Coyote to make it back with an an intelligent and cogent counter theory to the "Official Theory".............

.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts.”
Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Warning, this poster does not suffer fools gladly.
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sjamhcd
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Re: Land where Flight 93 went down being confiscated by government

Jul 10, 2009 12:13 AM
91 sez:

It is the opinion of scientists, investigators, engineers, lawyers and so many more.



91, we have opinions 'of scientists, investigators, engineers, lawyers and so many more' as well. And I've said many times, silence is not acquiescence. You can't claim thousands of scientists, etc. on your side unless they have publicly stated they believe the official theory. Show me a list of those scientists and engineers (who don't work for the government or rely on government funding for their research) who believe the official story. While you're at it, show me a list of (former) CIA, military and government officials who believe the official story and state so publicly.



I'm sorry. Are YOU stating categorically that when different video formats are transcribed there will be NO alteration in the horizontal and vertical nor will there be ANY change in color?



I'm sorry, but if you look at the video still, do you see any distortion in his hat or his shoulders, or any other part of the photo? And how does a 'different video format' change 'Bin Laden' from left-handed to right? And speaking of his hand, why is he seen wearing a gold ring, which is forbidden by the Koran?
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91xv920rh
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Re: Land where Flight 93 went down being confiscated by government

Jul 10, 2009 7:34 AM
91 sez:

It is the opinion of scientists, investigators, engineers, lawyers and so many more.


91, we have opinions 'of scientists, investigators, engineers, lawyers and so many more' as well. And I've said many times, silence is not acquiescence.



Conspiracy Addict common Concept #1: EVERYONE who actually knows the truth is scared.

You can't claim thousands of scientists, etc. on your side unless they have publicly stated they believe the official theory.

Conspiracy Addict common Concept #2: Unless you sign an online petition, you CAN'T believe that which is scientifically founded and supported with facts.

I don't think we will see a list of names from the scientific community stating MANY things that are true. Does this make them less true?

NO.

But, hey, without an online petition how would we know that scientists vbelieve the Earth is a sphere? That water consists of two parts Hydrogen to two parts Oxygen?

Show me a list of those scientists and engineers (who don't work for the government or rely on government funding for their research) who believe the official story.

Conspiracy Addict common Concept #1: EVERYONE who actually knows the truth is scared.

And a smattering of

Conspiracy Addict common Concept #3: them that aren't scared are IN ON IT.

While you're at it, show me a list of (former) CIA, military and government officials who believe the official story and state so publicly.

Conspiracy Addict common Concept #2 redux: Unless you sign an online petition, you CAN'T believe that which is founded on intelligence and supported with evidence.

In other words............

Less than one tenth of one percent (I asked you "truthers" to check my math last time) of the members of the sciences, military, engineers and architects, etc. have come out in supprt of the "truthers".

Of those only a portion support the MIHOP foolishness.

Now the challenge was:

Can YOU come up with an intelligent and cogent counter theory to the "Official Theory".............


I'm sorry, but if you look at the video still, do you see any distortion in his hat or his shoulders, or any other part of the photo? And how does a 'different video format' change 'Bin Laden' from left-handed to right? And speaking of his hand, why is he seen wearing a gold ring, which is forbidden by the Koran?

THE QUESTION WAS: Are YOU stating categorically that when different video formats are transcribed there will be NO alteration in the horizontal and vertical nor will there be ANY change in color?

It is a simple question..........

.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts.”
Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Warning, this poster does not suffer fools gladly.
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visual-audio
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Re: Land where Flight 93 went down being confiscated by government

Jul 10, 2009 8:42 AM
You're just some blowhard who recites the official conspiracy and claims it to be true.

Who are you to demand, 91?
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ri_bob
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Re: Land where Flight 93 went down being confiscated by government

Jul 10, 2009 8:56 AM
Who are you.....The Truth Fairy????

At eBay, we're not happy until you're not happy!!!!
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