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Last Post Sep 19, 2003 1:18 PM by: prestonius
Replies: 72
dansford@ebay.com
Posts: 45

You're Invited: Vintage Category Structure Discussion

Aug 29, 2003 3:13 PM
To the Vintage Clothing Community:

Thank you for your feedback around the recent category changes to the vintage clothing category structure. We are dedicated to identifying the key issues and ensuring that they are addressed.

Based on encouragement and direction from the vintage clothing community over the first half of the year, changes were developed and proposed in early July. This included the addition of reproductions, as well as the restructuring of time period and product-type to better serve the needs of existing buyers and new buyers to the community.

Before the changes were final, we publicized the proposed changes on the vintage clothing discussion board, on the clothing category page, in the clothing seller newsletter, and with some vintage sellers within the Clothing Voices group. In each of these formats, eBay was given the "green light" to move forward with the changes, so we moved forward accordingly confident that the changes would be positive for both buyers and sellers.

Our goal is to make trading as easy and productive as possible-- balancing the future growth of the category, while minimizing the impact of change. (This includes the priority of attracting new buyers to the category. The majority of new buyers shopping for clothing, shoes & accessories on eBay are very interested in vintage goods, but they are not familiar with shopping by time period.)

In order to ensure that we are achieving the above goals, we will host a discussion on the Vintage Clothing discussion board next Thursday, September 4 to try address all of the issues at hand and to determine next steps. The time of this discussion will be announced on Tuesday, September 2.

In the meantime, it would be appreciated if you could post your questions and main concerns to this thread so that we can address them during the Thursday discussion.

Thank you again for your commitment to eBay's vintage clothing business.

Best regards,

dansford@ebay.com
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ittybittyspeck
Posts: 29
(1 of 72)

You're Invited: Vintage Category Structure Discussion

Aug 29, 2003 3:30 PM
Hi Dansford! I have 3 wishes.

1. Please place the eras before the category breakdowns.
2. Please allow the lingerie to be broken down into eras.
3. Please allow the shoes to be broken down into eras.

I think if these things were done, pretty much everyone would be happy.

Thanks!
Sheila

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www.ladyluckvintage.com
Posts: 3,160
(2 of 72)

You're Invited: Vintage Category Structure Discussion

Aug 29, 2003 3:44 PM
Thanks for coming to talk to us. I look forward to Sept 4th.

In addition to the eras needing to be first, Vintage clothing buyers are in love with certain eras, not necessarily certain clothing items. I've never heard someone say "I love shirts!!!" But I have heard them say "I love 50's dresses!"

A buyer who wants a coat from the 50's does not want a coat from the 70's- but they might also want a 50's dress, a pair of 50's shoes and 50's lingerie to wear with that coat.... they need to be able to find all of those items without changing from page to page to page to see the right era of each item.

There really needs to be more communication. No one ever came back to the thread at the top of this page even acknowledging that they had read it, let alone what the specific changes would be.


Also, in the future, would it be possible for a thread to be put on the board letting us know when the changes will be made? I don't understand why ebay would make such drastic changes without letting sellers know. I know, I know.... you said August. Well, August has 31 days and I'm not that good at guessing. Ebay blindsided us. In addition to the outages last week- these new categories wreaked havoc on listing- many items simply said No Category and many were shifted into categories that were totally inappropriate for the item. We could have been better prepared if we had received notice with one simple thread on this board. I, for one, would really appreciate if ebay would take a more proactive approach in the future.

I'd tell ya to check out the cool things in my ebay store..... but I closed it. I won't be passing on ebay's fee increases to my customers.

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lucitebox
Posts: 6,008
(3 of 72)

You're Invited: Vintage Category Structure Discussion

Aug 29, 2003 3:46 PM
Hi Dansford. I'm very happy to see your post.

How is this new breakdown viewed as an effective means of attracting new buyers to the vintage category? You mention that the majority of new buyers shopping for clothing, shoes & accessories are interested in vintage fashion, but they are not familiar with shopping by time period. I am not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. Did you ask new users? If so, how many of them?

It's true that one of our common priorities is to attract newbies to the vintage category. How can we do that with the current search style and format? Certainly, the implemented change disrupts the whole process making it more than awkward and cumbersome. Frankly, it makes finding something era specific nearly impossible.

I don't have auctions running this weekend (thankfully) but have read fellow sellers and buyers discussions on this change. Nearly all of them are stating that hits are down in the category, bids are non-existent, and MOST importantly, people are more confused than ever about how to actually find vintage items on eBay.

Surely that wasn't the intent.

I ask that you reconsider placing eras before the category breakdowns. That format makes it much easier to search, to buy, and to sell vintage.

I'm sure you've seen Maeve's thread on this topic. Please take some time to review it. There are many really terrific points made by both sellers and buyers on that thread.

Thanks.
Holly


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bigchief173
Posts: 18
(4 of 72)

You're Invited: Vintage Category Structure Discussion

Aug 29, 2003 3:58 PM
Hi Dansford -

Thank you so much for taking this step to address our concerns.

My most urgent request is that items be categorized first by era, then by item - i.e., 50's > dress (or shoes, etc.) - for the reason ladyluckvintage states so clearly and reasonably above:

Vintage clothing buyers are in love with certain eras, not necessarily certain clothing items. I've never heard someone say "I love shirts!!!" But I have heard them say "I love 50's dresses!"

I look forward to your help in resolving this and other issues that have arisen since ebay's truly bizarre re-structuring of the Vintage Clothing & Accessories category.

Carolyn
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modmotogirl
Posts: 2,991
(5 of 72)

You're Invited: Vintage Category Structure Discussion

Aug 29, 2003 4:09 PM
Hi Dansford!
Happy to see your post, and I'm looking forward to the discussion, thanks!
I don't mean to downplay your research abilites, but this board is full of PowerSellers, none of whom understood the nature of the changes that were to be made. As any businessman or woman knows, implementing changes on a large scale is a BIG deal and requires a lot of tiresome back-and-forth dialogue. Simply posting the proposed changes without once modifying them based on feedback from us is not exactly the "green light".
I too disagree with your assumptions about new buyers. Buyers who normally shop for new clothing could easily be persuaded to browse/buy vintage if proper steps were taken. (I see promotions on the home page for new clothing every week and there has never been ONE for vintage!) For example, someone who shops new bohemian style clothing would love vintage 1970's garments. However, they would be overwhelmed and dissuaded from shopping vintage if they had to wade through all the blouses, etc. to find something they liked. Heck, we're overwhelmed and dissuaded, and we're collectors!
I'm truly sorry if this comes across as an attack, but as you can see, we are earnest and well-organized with valid arguments and numbers to back them up. Please work with us on a back-and-forth basis - we may not know how to program, but we definitely know our vintage, both as sellers and buyers. If we wanted to be successful (which, of course, we do) we would definitely take your programming advice, so may I humbly suggest you take advantage of our expertise in this area, and everyone will win! Thanks & see you Thursday!
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fuzzylizzie
Posts: 396
(6 of 72)

You're Invited: Vintage Category Structure Discussion

Aug 29, 2003 4:34 PM
Thanks for asking.

I think the number 1 problem is that the clothing ERA should precede the garment category breakdown. About 99.7 percent of the people who have posted concerning this problem have supported this. This includes buyers and sellers alike.

I also take extreme exception to the view that eBay was "given the 'green light'" to institute the changes as they were published on July 8. If you will take the time to read that thread, you will see that quite a few suggestions were made at that time, NONE of which were incorporated into the category changes. These suggestions included:

1. Era divisions for shoes

2. Era divisions for hats

3. Era divisions for lingerie

4. Era divisions of purses and handbags

5.Further era breakdowns in some categories - 1900-1937 is too long to constitute a fashion period.

6. Removal of unnecessary categories (Victorian shorts??)

Even though these changes were brought up a month and a half ago, there was never any feedback from the category staff or the resident pink whatsoever. And now you are saying we should have said something? Pardon me, but why bother, if you won't listen anyhow.

All the support that was posted on that thread was for the addition of the 80s and reproduction categories. These have been the big focuses on the board, and I'm willing to bet that is what the Clothing Focuses group was in favor of too.

There was also widespread support for the restructuring of the time periods, and for the most part, these are great. But I'm not sure I understand what you maen by restructuring of product-type. I don't remember any discussions along these lines, or am I missing something?

If the only reason for the total restructuring of putting the garment type category before the era was to attract new buyers who are unfamiliar with vintage clothing, then I'm afraid that is not good enough to satisify me. Vintage clothing is "Hot" right now, so I'm sure there is quite a bit of new interest in the category. But this fashion fad will pass, and we will be stuck with a category structure that is cumbersome and ineffective.

This is what we get for not strongly opposing that hairbrained idea that Vintage clothing should be moved from collectibles to clothing. JMHO

Lizzie

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benefleur
Posts: 41
(7 of 72)

You're Invited: Vintage Category Structure Discussion

Aug 29, 2003 4:39 PM
Hello Dansford,

Thank you for your post and for your attention to these concerns.

I am very much in support of the categories being broken down first by era, then by item. Many, many buyers have indicated that they prefer to search this way, and as a merchant, it's my job to do whatever I can to make the eBay experience enjoyable for my clients and potential clients.

I also encourage you to review Maeve's thread as suggested by Holly (lucitebox), above.

Respectfully,

Christina McMillion
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artisannes
Posts: 43
(8 of 72)

You're Invited: Vintage Category Structure Discussion

Aug 29, 2003 4:43 PM
Hi Dansford

Below are 191 people who have voted for ERA first, garment type second.

Artisanne's


We the undersigned request that Ebay revert to categorising vintage clothing by (era then by item category. We fear a loss in sales as a result of the new categories and must point out to Ebay that vintage clothing is a collector's market and is browsed by era.

Artisannes
Bartondoll
Kickshawproductions
Alonesolo
Hellochico
in-like-flynn!
CATBOOKS1940S
COTMYEY
Lucitebox
Crinolinegirl
Catwalkvintage
jewelmaven2002
retro-rani
ittybittyspeck
(heavensent)(hellbent)
fuzzylizzie
benefleur
schoolsgirl
NovaFashions
mab1810
whirly-girl
gaildavid
worth-a-peek
moonlightemporium
angelwalker
poodlesandstrippers
Sandypatti
Vintagestudio
style-rite
Jumblelaya
Calocelot
Mjwig
Tinastogs
Camelbackcat
hws4sale
1950spinup
shygarden
threecolorcat
Jhgirl
betty*blackbent
dcaesar
monroe1053
late*bloomers
marlyandmorry
route66gal
Vintagetrend
Designertrend
Leisavegas
Bettybitty
Jbhoffman
TheVintagePeddler
Essentialstyle
livein_jeans
fossilsmorsels
Interyenta
rman57
birchhouse
uniquetextiles
seers
artizania
MaxwellsMetalWorks,
Primitive*Collections,
Simplyposting
SimplyMemoriesCollectibles
Petsbounty
Katzoid
rjroni1
vintagelova1
Ciao346
Lostinthepast
JYount10171
cherry-twist
b173
thestrawberry
miss-suzie
zigzag-moderne
funquejunque
notdot2
coutureallure
nerak321
alwillis
specialsomethings
capemayfrocks
flavintage
gdette
2ndChanceTreasures
vintagedaisydeb
luckysparrow
Blueridger
Passion4fifties
Owd922
Poopoolooloo
stylemuse
Capricornvintage
Ghostbutterfly
Amishtaxi
Mags_rags
Wooof
Vintagevita
Kasket*13*
Lloydel
Picksfromthepast
CECILIMOSE
Wallflowerbuttercup
flashbak58
vintage*sedona
sues*stuff
picksfromthepast
pf1
canadiancloset
2ndchancetreasures
pastperfect2
Studio-85
French-at-Heart
stripedkat
northstarvintage
bestsecy
dandelion-vintage
tiptoemole
dibs2002
vintageboudoir
Hughes-Design
1princessleigh
*redlyn*
mistyriver
jeffcogs
timewas1
b*a*vintagequeen
craigandfaith
misskat23
stars-collide
pins-n-needles
Effiepearl
Jeangenie27
Tropicanarama
Frenchbliss
Photoprops
Momorush
LiveShopDie
Phoenix501
Knotmytreasures
Sweet-36
shilly_mcshillenstein
kitkatscollections

my-2-cents-worth
*nomorewirehangers*
fayesfineryandfollies
sidhesadie
nothingnew
shanp73
kitzykat
shabbeachic
serena*harmony
Firehawk325
carters7191
bustles-and-ponies
gina1950
sidhesadie
jingallbells
Vintage*belle
meloo
dilmagrhe
eclectic_wench
threewings
biddybidbidbid
lovetobmom
whitebirdiabd
ruby*red*
bead*happy
sillynanny
modmotogirl
momozach
mayonia
rtkcwyman
cagrandmontagne
hopechestvintage
sharon*says*vintage
adamsapple938
Camelot-line
Dancingdresses
Thriftbird
vintagegabby
tropicanarama
Swellegantvintage
Vintage*days
Youcancallmecordelia
Hip_vintage
Jamiexmas
HeartnSoul1
Lola_gt
Sweetpicks
mikeboy (and mrs)
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livein_jeans
Posts: 38
(9 of 72)

You're Invited: Vintage Category Structure Discussion

Aug 29, 2003 5:23 PM
Is it possible to add an extended link on vintage, ladies, evening wear or gowns?

I don't think there is a section other than dresses or other for semi/formal wear.
Is that correct?
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bartondoll
Posts: 74
(10 of 72)

You're Invited: Vintage Category Structure Discussion

Aug 29, 2003 5:36 PM
Good Evening Dansford,

Thank you for starting this thread and for notifying us
of the discussion on September 4th.

I really don't have much to add other than my support
to what has been stated in the excellent postings
preceeding mine. I also find it very telling the amount of buyers and sellers who have added their name to the
petition, I'm sure there are many others out there who
are not even aware of this petition (I do not that
many Ebayers are not aware of these Community boards)who would be adding their name.


First and foremost, Era before Item. I don't think it can be stressed enough that vintage clothing can not be compared to the modern Clothing category, especially when someone is searching for an item they
want. This has to be changed as quickly as possible.

I buy and sell in Vintage, and the last couple of days
have been confusing to me, I shudder to think of the
frustration a newer Ebay member would experience.

The other points, such as break down of shoes and lingerie are also very important...and a fine tuning of
a couple of the era breakdowns.

As has been stated, Vintage Clothing is becoming more and
more popular and is now featured in many of the leading
fashion magazines. Ebay is sitting on a potential goldmine, if this category is handled and promoted correctly....if not..????

Sue Barton
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artizania
Posts: 302
(11 of 72)

You're Invited: Vintage Category Structure Discussion

Aug 29, 2003 5:43 PM
I agree with everything said so far - in particular I wholeheartedly agree with the comments made by fuzzylizzie.

I welcomed the changes to this category when they were announced - but no-one ever said they would be implemented in this manner! I actually like these changes - on the whole - but really object to the way in which they have been handled and implemented!

We are not selling JUST dresses or shirts - we are selling items from specific eras/decades, and our buyers need to be able to find them easily. Ploughing through a multitude of dresses to find 30s or 50s dresses is not the way to go!

I cannot believe that you seriously think that buyers looking for era/decade specific shoes, will want to wade through EVERY vintage shoe listed on eBay!

I also object to the fact that when you implemented these changes, all items *already* listed suddenly were dumped in the 1960s category regardless of what they were and where they had been listed! Many sellers of Victorian items suddenly found their listings were in the 1960s category, just because ebay found it easier to handle it this way instead of ensuring a smooth change over of categories!

I look forward to the discussion on the 4th!

Margaret
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clevelandgrrl
Posts: 7
(12 of 72)

You're Invited: Vintage Category Structure Discussion

Aug 29, 2003 7:03 PM
i have stayed out of this until now, because i'm MUCH more of a browser/learner/buyer than a seller. but i will respond to this from the OP:

"The majority of new buyers shopping for clothing, shoes & accessories on eBay are very interested in vintage goods, but they are not familiar with shopping by time period."

this doesn't make very much sense. if someone is interested in vintage clothing, they are interested in a time period -- as LLV pointed out above.

one does not think, "i would like to buy an old dress" and then begin to look through listings ranging from the late 1800s to the late 80s. one thinks, "i would like to buy a 50s bombshell dress" and looks in the 50s category.

saying that shoppers are interested in vintage clothing and then - in the same sentence - saying they don't know to search by time period is a contradiction.

the point of shopping vintage is to shop for clothing from different time periods -- not to shop for "old clothes."

thank you.
clevelandgrrl
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lucitebox
Posts: 6,008
(13 of 72)

You're Invited: Vintage Category Structure Discussion

Aug 29, 2003 7:15 PM
I signed this petition circulated by artisannes as did more than 200 other sellers and buyers.

I need to ask, do I need to wait to list my items until after the 4th of September?

I was planning to list a large batch on the Tuesday of next week. I can't do that now knowing that so few of my new potential buyers will find my stuff.

I'm think we're all fortunate that this change happened at the cusp of the slowest weekend of the year saleswise, but do you suppose that eBay will act quickly and consider these comments immediately?

We're fast approaching a very busy e-tail season. I don't want to miss a minute of it. I'm sure many power sellers and buyers would agree. It's critical to know what's going to happen before next week.



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tinastogs
Posts: 435
(14 of 72)

You're Invited: Vintage Category Structure Discussion

Aug 29, 2003 7:36 PM
I totally agree with all that has been stated so far. And repeat what Lucitebox said, could you possibly act quicker? A few days may not seem that long to you, but to soemone who depends on this income for their livlihood, that is a very long time.

I am also concerned with the listing fees I paid to list items in specific categories. When these items ended yesterday, they were in no man's land. How could bidders find them? Why did I pay to list items that no one could find? Are we going to get those fees refunded?

"The majority of new buyers shopping for clothing, shoes & accessories on eBay are very interested in vintage goods, but they are not familiar with shopping by time period.) "

Based on what research? Where did this information come from? You are going to have to prove this statement.




Tina's Togs

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