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Last Post Jul 14, 2007 1:17 AM by: nanartchik
Replies: 678
jmi@ebay.com
Posts: 130

11/3/05: Update from the Art category manager

Nov 3, 2005 2:00 PM

Hello everyone,

It’s been a while since we last chatted, and it has been a busy last few months, so I wanted to update you on what’s been going on in the Art category since we last spoke.

This past summer was one of the strongest ones for the category. While we traditionally experience a lull during the summer months because of holidays and vacations, this summer, we were able to see less of a drop-off than in summers past. August especially was a good month, and we saw it continue into September as well. I know most of the folks here list primarily in Paintings and Self-Representing Artists, and in those two categories in particular, we definitely saw less of a drop-off than we normally see during the summer. The sell-through rates for both of those categories were among the highest we have seen in the last 13 months, which was encouraging to see.


As we look to the holiday season, where the category is historically at its busiest, we look to be in good shape. We have good momentum from the tail-end of the summer, and our marketing teams are gearing up to promote the various categories in different ways. One of the things we have pushed for in the past is to get more recognition for Art, and I was really excited to see an Art-specific graphic on the homepage a few weeks ago to coincide with the launch of the new “It” campaign. I hope you got to see the “Hang It” graphic that was created especially to promote Art. I will try and locate the URL for it so you can see it for yourselves in case you missed it. Like you, I would like to see more inclusion for Art in marketing, so I continue to push for it. The ideas and suggestions you have given me over the many months have been great in helping me develop the “pitch” to our marketing team, so please know that your thoughts are being heard.


Lastly, I wanted to let you know how very proud I am of the Art community for showing such compassion during the tragedies we have seen in the last few months. You already showed what a caring community this is with the “Hole in the Wall Gang” charity drive that many of you organized a few months ago, and it was so heartening to see you follow that up with additional charity drives to benefit causes such as helping the victims of Hurricane Katrina and the Southeast Asia earthquakes. Thank you for showing the world what the Art community is all about.


I know you probably have plenty of questions for me, so I encourage you to post them in this thread. Unfortunately, I will not be able to get to every question, but I will do my best to pick up general themes and address those questions/concerns that bubble up to the top. As I have said before, I wish I had more time to visit the board more frequently, but please know that even when I am not posting, I do try my best to read as many of your posts as I can.


As always, I am committed to working with you to keep improving this category. While we may not always agree on the “how’s,” I want you to know that I do listen to your thoughts and do my best to come up with solutions to address the needs. My job is to make sure Art is a thriving business on eBay—my success as a category manager is measured by your success. We are on the same side, and I hope you will remember this, even if we are sometimes engaged in healthy debate :). I do like hearing your thoughts and really appreciate the constructive feedback you have. We know we have many things we need to improve on, so I want to make sure we keep the dialogue open and flowing both directions. You have my personal promise that I will remain constructive in my posts, and I only ask that of you in return. We are tackling many tough issues, and knowing that I have your support as you have mine really helps me on my end to do my job to the best of my ability.


Thanks,

Jennifer

jmi@ebay.com

P.S. I will check back later today before I leave for the day--if I am not able to answer questions, I will do so tomorrow, but I'll read through your posts.

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jmi@ebay.com
Posts: 130
(1 of 678)

11/3/05: Update from the Art category manager

Nov 3, 2005 2:09 PM
Hi again everyone,

I forgot to mention that the "Hole In The Wall Gang" charity drive I mentioned earlier had a tremendous impact on the SRA category--during the time it was running, we saw a spike in sales! So exciting to see. I'd love to collaborate with you on additional things we can be doing to help drive traffic to the category. The charity drive showed that we can really make a difference in bringing attention when we're doing creative, innovative things, and I know this group is full of creative ideas, so please keep them coming!

Jennifer
jmi@ebay.com

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arteitaliana
Posts: 578
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11/3/05: Update from the Art category manager

Nov 3, 2005 3:15 PM
Dear Jennifer

we feel, and have been feeling for some time now, utterly abandoned by our category managers.

Very little has been done about copies, fakes and frauds. They are so common on ebay now that we don't even bother reporting them anymore. When they are reported nothing is done in most cases.

The fact that NPBs can still post a negative really undermines the value of FB and penalizes honest sellers.

The fact the some dishonest sellers can circumvent negative FB by making their FB private is also something that makes us wonder if eBay is supporting and ecouraging fakes and frauds.

A lot of collectors have given up on ebay because of the amount of scams perpetrated every day.

Do you want more?Here we go:
There is text at the bottom of each category page that reads:

eBay offers the largest selection of Art items for you to choose from. The Sculptures category has bronze, stone, plaster and clay pieces created by Michelangelo Buonarroti, Leonardo da Vinci, Auguste Rodin and Henry Moore. Looking to spice up your home or office with a painting? You'll be surprised by the selection of paintings by Paul Cezanne, Salvador Dali, Vincent van Gogh, Claude Monet, Pablo Picasso, Jackson Pollock, Rembrant and other popular and independent artists. On eBay, it's easy to find that one poster you've been looking for.
This is disgraceful in my opinion, as it encourages fakes and frauds and directs buyers to them.

Listing fees have increased, hits and sales have diminished.

The charity was good for the charity, not for the sellers.

Ebay TV ads are tailored to look for sellers, not buyers.
(this is a big mistake in my opinion)

End prices for Original Art have plummeted

Ebay promotion only promotes posters, folk art, modern art, framed art...all these categories have stores with thousands of listings. We got it...we are not the art category, we heard that loud and clear.

I have asked you long time ago, why not have icons that direct users to specific subjects like nudes, landscapes, florals...you answer was that the art department did not have an icon for that and they were working on it. This was months ago. Are they still working on it? You must have a slow art department.

The truth is that ebay makes money with our FPing, so the interest to make our art visible is not there.
Ebay knows that we cannot list thousands of pieces per week, so we will rely on FP, even double FP in the effort to be seen.
More promotion for us will mean more visibility and consequently less need for FP.
We have finally understood that. We are dense at times, but we finally understood that ebay lacks the interest to promote us.

A lot of good original artists heve left ebay. They just could not make it. The category has lost its variety and this means that good collectors have gone as well.

For every buyer that gets scammed by unscrupulous sellers you seem to protect, many more ( friends, relatives, aquaintances) will leave ebay.


I don't expect you to respond. I am not sure you have answers for all this. I am just venting my frustration and disappointment, I should say OUR frustration and disappointment because I know I am talking for hundreds of other sellers like me.

Have a great day.

Rita
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simba1025
Posts: 182
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11/3/05: Update from the Art category manager

Nov 3, 2005 4:26 PM
I agree with everything that Rita said. I'm not sure how to even say what I want to say without it looking like an attack. I'm just going to say it. Your numbers may show an increase in the art catagory but they aren't numbers that represent the people and artists here. We're all suffering. We've told you over and over that we are drowning and you've ignored it. Then you pop in with a post, after ignoring everything we've said, to tell us how well we are doing? We aren't! We're struggling. Treading water and we're drowning, and it's the frauds and the fakes and the knock off's that ebay allows, that's taking us down. We cannot compete nor defend ourselves to that. They steal our images, they steal our text and it takes us forever to get it removed. They drive away good buyers and they pull away views for decent, hard working artists. They cause doubt, but they bring in the numbers for you. We can't compete.

Ebay was a good thing for a lot of us at one point. Every now and then there's a light of hope but it's not steady. We've told you what would help us, but it doesn't seen't to matter. Please, if you are going to ignore us and you can't help deliver, then please, don't insult us. We know what our sales look like.
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simba1025
Posts: 182
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11/3/05: Update from the Art category manager

Nov 3, 2005 4:45 PM
And, since Rita brought up the feedback issue! I have to vent some more. I had 100 percent Positive Feedback until Sept. when I filed a NPB on someone. She retaliated with a neg. I have TWO NPB's right now, one is a month old. I don't dare file a NPB on them or leave a neg for fear of getting a neg. I know ebay changed it's policy that they can't leave a neg if they don't repond to the NPB but the NPB is enough to get someone upset enough to pay and then leave a neg. The system doesn't work. I'm more than sure there are plenty of other people out there who don't file a NPB or leave a neg for fear or retaliation. And ebay gets to keep the FVF fee's too. It's not right.
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ms*patricia
Posts: 17,562
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11/3/05: Update from the Art category manager

Nov 3, 2005 5:45 PM
I simply have to start out by saying "huh"???

I know Ebay likes to lock itself behind doors and look at numbers instead of listening to people but I think you'll find that the numbers have been good all summer mainly due to the fact that most artists have low-balled their work and also a lot of them switched to ACEO's or mixed ACEO's in with their regular work because they know its a hot item right now and it would drive traffic to them. I, myself, have had a banner summer because of them. It was a heck of a lot of hard work too!!! Do you even know what an ACEO is??? I doubt it. You can't find out those things when you lock yourself away and look at computer generated numbers instead of communicating with the artists here! I'm stunned - absolutely stunned by this. I would laugh if it weren't so sad!

Also, as Arte said, the art categories have become a dumping ground for fraudulent works and sweatshop art. Ebay only sees the revenue but reputation-wise they should be duly embarressed. This is not a safe place for buyers who seem forever fooled by fraudulent works and that feeling of getting a great masterpiece for almost nothing! They are never informed or warned and the sellers don't even get a tap on the wrist for what they do. Yes, most of us just turn away - we're too busy paddling to keep our own heads above water in this kind of an environment.
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arteitaliana
Posts: 578
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11/3/05: Update from the Art category manager

Nov 3, 2005 6:16 PM
How are you exatly trying to help us ( sellers of original art listed by the artist)Jennifer?
At the moment of the 8 icons on the art portal page I see one " find art for your home"
One could hope to find original art there, right?

Nooooo...! the icon leads to a search for Botanical prints.
Big sellers there...thousands of listings each. That's the ART category you are talking about, right?
None of those sellers ever posts in this forum, that's who your clients are, not us. I don't understand why you still bother to post here.
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ms*patricia
Posts: 17,562
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11/3/05: Update from the Art category manager

Nov 3, 2005 6:22 PM
I say this respectfully, but I really don't know why you come here. Its kind of like leaving us in a locked room full of water and then coming back months later to find we survived! I find this type of communication downright insulting. :(
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vetromile
Posts: 412
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11/3/05: Update from the Art category manager

Nov 3, 2005 7:10 PM
Odd.
I gave up listing my art about a month ago. I have been doing my local flea market on Sundays where I pay $20.00 to set up and I sell from $200. to $500. Now, that's not so bad. I will try eBay again later during the winter. It just doesn't make sense to pay $20.00+ plus to list one item to MAYBE get a minimum bid. I certainly wish it was different here and we were all selling are art but....
I have also found another site where I have sold a painting. Email if you want the name. DV
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arteitaliana
Posts: 578
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11/3/05: Update from the Art category manager

Nov 3, 2005 7:11 PM
But they do, Peter. They do!
They understand that number of listing counts. That big sellers count. That fakes and frauds bring in a lot of money. That keeping us starved for visibility will increase the number of FPs. That keeping FB private will protect dishonest sellers. I could go on...
They understand the category well. Is when they pretend to do OUR interests and caring for our input that I start seeing red...
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meloearth
Posts: 3,912
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11/3/05: Update from the Art category manager

Nov 3, 2005 7:15 PM
This is the deal: doesn't this happen once in a blue moon here?
(older members pls. correct me if I'm wrong).

A CM comes and posts asking for opinions, options, pretending they are working very hard to "fix" the problems with this category and a ton of people post, full of hope (or with some little bits left) and the end result? Again, they all get ignored, and nothing changes for the better.

C'mon, even our emails to customer service don't even get replied to anymore. Which brings me to ask: what the heck do eBay employees do all the freaking time that we don't see????!!!!

Well...I've seen this all before. And I have no more time to waste. I'll post a nude here before I post a suggestion to eBay.

The initial dreams/illusions I had of a certain success here have now been buried. I hate to say this, but I've been forced to now see this as a hobby, really. And I no longer brag/tell about eBay to anyone like I used to.

eBay has taken the wrong track. That's what happens when people get too full of themselves, and I suppose companies are no different.
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ms*patricia
Posts: 17,562
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11/3/05: Update from the Art category manager

Nov 3, 2005 7:16 PM
correction - "don't need it". I'm pretty angry and frustrated right now. This should not be - its deliberately teasing your own customers. Something I could never lower my standards to do. My customers mean the world to me - I do not shove them around or manipulate them!!!
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ptogel
Posts: 43
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11/3/05: Update from the Art category manager

Nov 3, 2005 7:24 PM
A survey of collectibles prices by TIAS, a site on which dealers sell collectibles, shows pricing coming down. Comparing a total of 18,500 eBay auctions that took place in the first five months of this year with the same period of 2000, the survey found that the average selling price dropped some 40% over the past year, to $50 from about $84. At the same time, the dealers being monitored were listing 63% more items.
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artistjillian
Posts: 378
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11/3/05: Update from the Art category manager

Nov 3, 2005 7:26 PM
How do I get a job with ebay re art?

There is so much going on in art that someone who has not watched art their entire life just does not get!!!
And I mean DECADES.

Why are artists forced to constantly market and reinvent themselves, just to fend off frauds, etc?

Please get in touch. There are better ways of doing this. You might gain artists every day. But you lose the better ones. A sad loss.

~Jillian
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marems
Posts: 84
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11/3/05: Update from the Art category manager

Nov 3, 2005 7:34 PM
Ebay's worst offense it allowing sellers to remain who repeatedly have their auctions removed by the Vero program for stealing other's art.
What kind of confidence or credibility does that engender.
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