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Last Post Oct 2, 2009 5:08 PM by: m_scarlett
Replies: 305
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housesofspringfield
Posts: 10
(1 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 6:59 AM
I had the same reaction. It seems like they are saying "instead of a pure commission, we're now going to pay you an amount per click, but we decide the rate we want to pay you based on stuff that we won't share with you."

It remains to be seen as to how this will affect me or anyone else. Best case is that this plan weeds out publishers who are somehow gaming the system and are being paid for traffic that isn't valuable to eBay.

Worst case is that this is a mechanism for eBay to ratchet down the amount it pays to *all* affiliates because it allows them to arbitrarily and gradually decrease the amount per click on a per-affiliate basis. Maybe they're figuring that if someone is making $1,000 per month, they're not going to drop the program for $900 per month, and then they're not going to drop the program for $800 per month, etc.

I'm just going to have to wait and see, and reevaluate whether I continue to devote space to the eBay program, and also reevaluate whether I want to add new opportunities for the program as well.

I wonder if this is in response to the taxation laws that are taking effect where states are ruling that affiliate sales create a legal nexus in a state, so sales tax must be collected. If they're paying CPC, then it isn't exactly an affiliate sale anymore, is it?
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collectinggb
Posts: 61
(2 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 7:05 AM
Yes, just been reading the email myself and couldn't help wondering if my experience of driving revenue traffic to eBay will now mirror my experience of ACRUs by becoming worth increasingly less.

I know we are supposed to "adapt to survive" and all that good stuff but can't we at least catch some oxygen, coffee and peace for five minutes before having to rethink everything yet again?

There comes a point where the unknown nature of future rewards will simply deter me making any further effort.
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mrguyhp
Posts: 569
(3 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 7:06 AM
The CPC is tied to sales and ACRU value. That's they way I read it.

It's now more important then ever to drive quality traffic.

If someone is just driving clicks and their EPC falls below .03, then they will be expired.

If your driving quality clicks and people are buying and dare I say the word "engaging" on eBay, then your EPC will be fine.

It will now also take info account other revenue generating activity besides BINs and Auctions which it didn't before.

One Beta tester has said they like the new system and are earing within a few dollars of what they used to.
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collectinggb
Posts: 61
(4 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 7:11 AM
If that is so then I wouldn't like to be hosting Daily Deal banners to make a living! :O
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steveh@ebay.com
Posts: 111
(5 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 7:18 AM
Hi everyone,

As this is a lot of big news this AM on the pricing change, I wanted to make sure we're addressing the questions and concerns that come up along the way.

To the point that housesofspringfield made, this is really the "best case" scenario with the caveat that we will be paying a relatively large number of our affiliates more in the new payout structure. As we save on the low quality traffic, we can provide better incentives for the high quality traffic. And even though we're now paying out on a CPC basis, this is still very much an affiliate program. The Quality Click Pricing model, while it is CPC, is a performance-based compensation model. In addition, the direct relationship with publishers, level of flexibility on integration, level of reporting and data provided, are all characteristics of affiliate marketing programs.

As to mrguyhp's point on expiring affiliates with EPCs lower than $.03, we have not set any policies like that. However, mrguyhp did make some other really good points in his post about sending engaged traffic, and we're going to share some stories from some of the beta testers over the next few weeks.

Thanks
Steve
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markozd
Posts: 64
(6 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 7:22 AM
I fear the same - the email and the online info, as you suggest, give us no clear indications of how this actually works in practice and blurs the relationship between our marketing efforts and actual earnings even further, creating yet more uncertainty for affiliates.

What does seem clear though from the FAQ is that we will NO LONGER be paid directly for sales on a commission basis (surely the foundation stone of any affiliate or dealership scheme!), but rather through some mystical EPC calculation which is calculated for the previous day. Try as I might, I cannot make head nor tail of this sentence,

"...although an EPC amount is posted the day after your clicks are delivered to eBay, when setting that EPC the algorithm takes into account historical data, such as the lifetime value of ACRUs and sales within the 7 day cookie lifetime, as well as the quality of yesterday’s traffic."

How does "the quality of yesterday’s traffic" impact the following day's EPC if EPN is looking for "lifetime value" (meaning 7 day cookie lifetime)? How is lifetime value calculated? Can we be told what this algorithm is, exactly? I mean, it shouldn't matter, right? In fact, it would be better if we knew exactly how this calculation was done, then we could work to provide exactly the kind of traffic eBay is looking for.

Can you imagine Avon saying to the Avon rep, "You know, what, we won't be paying you a commission on sales you refer any more, rather we will be paying you according to the value to us of the sales over a seven-day period, but you won't be told how we came by that value, but you just keep finding quality customers and we'll take care of exactly how much you get paid."?
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aucsales
Posts: 760
(7 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 7:22 AM
Hard to tell anything and impossible to make an intelligent decision without seeing the EPC estimates.

I'm more concerned about the effect this will have on projected holiday revenue.


As to mrguyhp's point on expiring affiliates with EPCs lower than $.03, we have not set any policies like that.


Item 8 of the FAQ says different.
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javatrace
Posts: 101
(8 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 7:24 AM
Steve,
How is this going to affect those on pepperjam? I noticed in the FAQs that some "loyalty" programs will stay with the old pricing structure so does pepperjam fall into that group?

This looks promising and as long as we have good content sites we should stand to make the same, if not more.

Thanks
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bayofpigeons
Posts: 38
(9 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 7:25 AM
Hey Steve,

The FAQ does state the policy that you will expire affiliates if "the quality of traffic has been very low (e.g. EPCs below -$.03) for a sustained period of"... it cuts off there.

You may want to take a look at that to adjust the period and negative EPC?
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bayofpigeons
Posts: 38
(10 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 7:29 AM
Can we be told what this algorithm is, exactly? I mean, it shouldn't matter, right? In fact, it would be better if we knew exactly how this calculation was done, then we could work to provide exactly the kind of traffic eBay is looking for.


Are you serious? Of course it matters. Do you think Google is going to give out their algorithm to everyone? Of course not... too many people would game the system and it would become meaningless. If EPN gave out just exactly how their algo works, it takes away the whole point of moving to quality based pricing - to weed out the scammers.
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steveh@ebay.com
Posts: 111
(11 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 7:30 AM
aucsales & bayofpigeons,

Thanks for the correction - we did state the "~$.03 for a sustained period of time" in the FAQs. To provide context, this is an extremely low CPC and we have seen very few publishers who have been close to this range over a sustained period.

Thanks
Steve
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javatrace
Posts: 101
(12 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 7:37 AM
On the low CPC question, would each campaign be looked at individually or it's a total EPC that would trigger a flag? For example, some folks could have a site that creates lots of clicks but not many sales because of the high ticket items they may be offerring. Then they have a different site that does ok in epc. But the 2 together could make for a very low epc.

And what's a sustained period of time? Days, weeks, months?
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markozd
Posts: 64
(13 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 7:42 AM
Can we be told what this algorithm is, exactly? I mean, it shouldn't matter, right?


Are you serious? Of course it matters. Do you think Google is going to give out their algorithm to everyone? Of course not... too many people would game the system and it would become meaningless. If EPN gave out just exactly how their algo works, it takes away the whole point of moving to quality based pricing - to weed out the scammers.


Well, maybe I am being a little tongue-in-cheek, but if the algorithm genuinely measures actual traffic quality, then that is something you can't game, unlike Google, surely? If I am sending quality traffic, and the algorithm accurately determines what is quality traffic, then what's to game? The only way you could trick the algorithm is by actually sending quality traffic! Unless you are suggesting the algo actually does NOT transparently and accurately determine what is quality traffic. That would be different...
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e3m3i3l3
Posts: 42
(14 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 7:44 AM
Steve, where and when can we see the preview of our earnings with the new system?
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