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Last Post Oct 2, 2009 5:08 PM by: m_scarlett
Replies: 305
chris.uk@ebay.com
Posts: 32
(60 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 10:52 AM
Javatrace,

Yes that's correct. Your EPC will be calculated at campaign level and rolled up to program level, so one low quality campaign, amongst many high camapigns will not result in you being terminated, although it may dilute your overall EPC. Please also refer to Steve's post about low EPCs - only if your EPC is low for a sustained period of time and we contact you on a number of occassions and you can't improve your quality would you be expired.

Regarding sites that promote high ASP items, remember that the revenue associated with these items will be also be higher, even if the conversion rate is lower than for lower cost items, so selling high value items would not neccessarily impact your EPC negatively.
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chris.uk@ebay.com
Posts: 32
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Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 10:57 AM
Shelby60173

EPC is set at campaign level, although this rolls up to program level. You will be able to see different EPCs for all the campaigns you have and therefore see what you are earning on each campaign. This is actually one of the things we changed following beta publsihers' feedback.
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steveh@ebay.com
Posts: 111
(62 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 11:00 AM
haltingpoint,

Here are the answers to a few of your questions.

1. What tools will you be putting into place to help us gauge the quality of our clicks? Will we be able to see a breakout of the behavior of every click? Ie. did they click an ad, make a bid, etc.? This sounds like it will have the same issue as the ACRU problem which is that we have a nebulous answer on what a quality click will be, but will not have the proper tools to assess where our traffic may fall short in regards to those metrics. Like...our traffic is great for metric A, B and C, but crap on D, E and F which might be weighed more heavily and therefore we get canned.


Out of the gates we're providing EPCs at a campaign level, so you can segment your campaigns to evaluate what sites or campaigns of yours are effective. Note that you will need a minimum amount of clicks per campaign (on the order of ~40/day) to see a campaign-level EPC. We're also looking at ways to provide more reporting to publishers with more insight into traffic quality but we don't have a release date at this time.

2. #26 from the FAQ is particularly troubling...the bit about affiliates who drive low dollar amounts per day being lumped together. How much specifically do we have to drive to not be lumped in with the group? I have a very niche site and unfortunately I have a low total amount of traffic to it (despite ranking well and being linked to from other sites as an "authority site" and don't have the ability to substantially increase traffic. I feel like this change will specifically kill low-volume affiliates.

These are affiliates who drive just a few dollars per day. Also, this is at a publisher level so the way in which you segment your campaigns won't have any effect on your overall earnings or whether you are in the very low volume pool.

3. Please give additional details on the "communication" that will take place before an affiliate gets terminated. Is this simply going to be an email that pops up in my mail box one day saying "oops, you're no longer an affiliate and don't bother trying to contact us" or is it going to be an actual opportunity to review the site and have an actual discussion with a live person at eBay (not some call center reading off a script in India)?

We're going to try to have as personal a touch as possible but will need to focus our efforts on the affiliates who are show they are trying to drive quality traffic. If a publisher has nothing but a bunch of bad adfarm sites, they probably won't get a lot of personal attention, but if an affiliate is obviously putting effort into niche content sites, we'll try to work with them directly.

4. Please clarify on why on the old model it was bad to drive traffic to eBay if they didn't necessarily buy anything. I believe my site, which uses the Editor Kit to give a long listing of products, suffers from what you might call pogo-sticking. Or more likely people open several tabs from my site. Why does it sound like I will be punished for sending traffic to eBay when in the end, I was only compensated for traffic that drove revenue for eBay?

A click that doesn't drive a sale on eBay is not bad in and of itself. However, higher volumes of traffic that result in sales that are not directly correlated to the affiliate site is worth less than the same volume of traffic that results in highly correlated sales. In your case, the pogo-sticking can be ok, and while it may result in a slightly lower EPC, you'll still receive the appropriate amount of overall earnings.

Thanks
Steve
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steveh@ebay.com
Posts: 111
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Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 11:09 AM

I'm curious about what you call "pogo sticking". The description sounds like someone who clicks on an affiliate link, goes to eBay, then goes back to the affiliate link to click through to another item, etc. I don't understand why this is considered undesirable to eBay under the old payment structure, since the first click sets a 7 day cookie. Any clicks after that don't cost eBay anything under a "winning bid revenue sharing" model -- but will cost eBay more under a CPC model.


housesofspringfield,

Just to clarify, I'm not stipulating that pogo-sticking behavior is bad. It actually may be a result of a good experience on the affiliate site that adds value to eBay listings. For example, a golf site that has a lot of information on different types of clubs with featured eBay listings may result in a user doing a lot of research on the affiliate site then clicking back and forth between that site and the listings. This is actually good and won't affect overall earnings at all - what it may do, though, is lower the EPC for that publisher because the incremental activity is simply distributed across a larger number of legitimate clicks. Hope that helps!

Steve
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tufala_llc
Posts: 5
(64 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 11:19 AM
What about custom id tracking in the transaction download report? I need to be able to map from advertising initiatives to revenue so that I can calculate ROI. In other words, I need a report, like that transaction id report, except that lists all clicks, the corresponding revenue, and the custom id that was passed in.

If I can't map earnings back to the originating source, then I can't run eBay on my site.
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doncecil
Posts: 40
(65 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 11:23 AM
One thing that I'm surprised that hasn't been mentioned with this model is the possibility of click-fraud arising.

~don
"Rock you like a hurricane"
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efn2k
Posts: 15
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Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 11:26 AM
anyone else have to look up "obfuscation?"
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bayofpigeons
Posts: 38
(67 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 11:29 AM
"Out of the gates we're providing EPCs at a campaign level, so you can segment your campaigns to evaluate what sites or campaigns of yours are effective. Note that you will need a minimum amount of clicks per campaign (on the order of ~40/day) to see a campaign-level EPC. We're also looking at ways to provide more reporting to publishers with more insight into traffic quality but we don't have a release date at this time. "

Hi Steve,

If we have a campaign with less than 40 clicks, will we be paid for those clicks? If so, and EPN doesn't find a campaign to have enough clicks to determine the quality is statistically reliable to provide an EPC, then where are you determining the CPC from?

Thanks!
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mrguyhp
Posts: 587
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Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 11:35 AM
Let’s say I have 100 campaigns.

Out of those campaigns, 50 of them get 0 clicks for the day, 20 of them get 5 to 20 clicks each and the other 30 get any were where from 50 to several hundred each for a total of 800 to 1000 clicks per day and together they all generate more than 50.00 per day in commissions at the current payout levels.

How will the low EPC threshold of .03 be factored? Overall campaign level or on an individual campaign level?
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shehadi8
Posts: 187
(69 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 11:35 AM
One thing that I'm surprised that hasn't been mentioned with this model is the possibility of click-fraud arising.



how's that?
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mrguyhp
Posts: 587
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Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 11:37 AM
Also, how will the daily epc be affected by campaigns that get less than 40 clicks but generate solid revenue since they are very targeted clicks.
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we-auctionit
Posts: 51
(71 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 11:37 AM
this is basically "adsense for eBay".
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javatrace
Posts: 101
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Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 11:39 AM
Just to clarify, I'm not stipulating that pogo-sticking behavior is bad. It actually may be a result of a good experience on the affiliate site that adds value to eBay listings. For example, a golf site that has a lot of information on different types of clubs with featured eBay listings may result in a user doing a lot of research on the affiliate site then clicking back and forth between that site and the listings. This is actually good and won't affect overall earnings at all - what it may do, though, is lower the EPC for that publisher because the incremental activity is simply distributed across a larger number of legitimate clicks. Hope that helps!

Steve


That's the scenario with many of my sites as they are very niche related and higher ticket items. So they have the potential to lower epc. Although that may not affect earnings, I wouldn't want them to raise flags for network quality when it fact they are authority sites in their respective niche. That is my main concern.

I have a couple of sites that are #1 on google for several terms and get lots of organic monthly traffic. But based on the prices of the items, people will not impulse buy.

Most of my sites fall into this category. I try to make them authority sites but will now seem to pay the price in terms of a lower epc.

I would love to discuss options for improving those sites Steve. I've put a lot of time and energy in getting these types of sites to be #1 in the serps and although my epc has never been .03 it's not as high as I myself would like it because of the type of items and information on them.
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steveh@ebay.com
Posts: 111
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Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 11:42 AM
"Out of the gates we're providing EPCs at a campaign level, so you can segment your campaigns to evaluate what sites or campaigns of yours are effective. Note that you will need a minimum amount of clicks per campaign (on the order of ~40/day) to see a campaign-level EPC. We're also looking at ways to provide more reporting to publishers with more insight into traffic quality but we don't have a release date at this time. "

Hi Steve,

If we have a campaign with less than 40 clicks, will we be paid for those clicks? If so, and EPN doesn't find a campaign to have enough clicks to determine the quality is statistically reliable to provide an EPC, then where are you determining the CPC from?

Thanks!


bayofpigeons,

You'll definitely be paid for all of your clicks. With the low volume campaigns, the information isn't statistically meaningful to be able to compare compaigns against each other so in order to not provide misleading information, we simply roll these clicks into the overall publisher EPC, click, and total earnings numbers.

Thanks
Steve
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iamratfink
Posts: 201
(74 of 305)

Re: Quality Click Pricing = more obfuscation?

Aug 19, 2009 11:43 AM
Shelby60173

EPC is set at campaign level, although this rolls up to program level.



OK, i'm still confused.... I understand that we will be able to see our EPC for each campaign, but your suggesting that we will be paid for our overall average EPC across all campaigns?

Simple example:

Campaign #1: 500 clicks, EPC = .17
Campaign #2: 100 clicks, EPC = .05

This averages out my EPC to be .11. If I get paid by the AVERAGE EPC over all campaigns, my pay would be $66. But if I get paid on the Campaign level, it would be $90. That second campaign, by itself would certainly be considered worthwhile at EPC of .05... sure its not great but its not horrible either. But that campaign would have a seriously negative impact on my overall income.. so much so that I would be WAY better off getting rid of it all together. I'm sure that isn't what eBay wants. Please tell me this isn't how it works!
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