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Last Post Nov 8, 2009 5:12 AM by: thisismyepnid
Replies: 14
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thisismyepnid
Posts: 12

WBR Seems Off

Nov 5, 2009 5:56 PM
I'm roughly familiar with the insertion fees and final value fees that sellers pay to eBay -- which is basically what the "Winning Bid Revenue" column represents in our reports.

But I'm having trouble getting my head around the WBR revenue reported for a particular purchase shown in my ePN account. It was a watch -- item # 250250892765, to be exact -- that sold for $495.

The Winning Bid Revenue reported in my ePN account for that sale is $1.80. That's less than a half a percent in total fees that the seller supposedly paid to eBay for that sale! Regardless of what kind of discounts this seller might be getting, it doesn't seem possible that the WBR could be that low from a $495 sale.

With low-click-volume campaigns getting pooled together for reporting purposes, the Earnings column is now meaningless in our reports, so I look at GMB and WBR as primary measures of how campaigns are performing. But a $495 GMB with $1.80 WBR makes those reporting metrics also suspect.

What am I missing? Is there any situation in which eBay's WBR could be $1.80 on a $495 sale?
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alssoftware
Posts: 148
(1 of 14)

Re: WBR Seems Off

Nov 5, 2009 9:21 PM
That item is listed on the Spain site. What program did it sell under? The ES program doesn't compensate by value, but by a flat rate. If that's still the case under QCP, it would explain things, but I believe EPN claimed that non-us programs were compensated the same as US now. So something is either in error or being misrepresented.
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thisismyepnid
Posts: 12
(2 of 14)

Re: WBR Seems Off

Nov 6, 2009 4:20 AM
Yeah, it sure seems to me like something is in error. This was reported as an eBay US transaction, and appeared in my transaction download for the eBay US program.

This is the exact line from my transaction report download, with only my CampID, CampaignName and CustomID removed, and wrapped to 2 lines to avoid stretching out the page too badly:
2009-11-04	2009-11-05	Winning Bid (Revenue)	1.8	1	eBay US	--	--	10005	RSS Generator	 
-- 2009-10-31 14:29:58 250250892765 31387 1 495.00 0 281 15938826254


The 4th column, 1.8, is the eBay Revenue amount -- $1.80.

The 4th from last column is the sale price, $495.00.

Has anyone else seen weird entries like this, where the numbers just don't seem right?
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pawnshopsnet
Posts: 985
(3 of 14)

Re: WBR Seems Off

Nov 6, 2009 5:45 AM
That item is listed on the Spain site. What program did it sell under? The ES program doesn't compensate by value, but by a flat rate. If that's still the case under QCP, it would explain things, but I believe EPN claimed that non-us programs were compensated the same as US now. So something is either in error or being misrepresented.


Didn't have time to check the fees on SP site but if it is a flat rate then that may have been what the cost to the seller really was. How they are handling it under QCP I'm not sure.

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notmuchadoaboutnothing
Posts: 342
(4 of 14)

Re: WBR Seems Off

Nov 6, 2009 5:55 AM
It appears that the watch was an ebay stores listing.

For USA sellers:
insertion fees for ebay stores are for merchandise with selling price $200.00 and above = $0.10 insertion fee

The watch sold for $495.00, which would put it in the $100.01 - $1,000.00 category of final value fees. The FVF for that range is:

12.00% of the initial $25.00 ($3.00), plus 8.00% of the initial $25.01 – $100.00 ($6.00), plus 4.00% of the remaining closing value balance $100.01 – $1,000.00

So if there was no special deal for ebay stores taking place, the FVF should be about $24.80, and add the $.10 insertion fee so you're at $24.90 for fees paid to ebay. Also, the seller doesn't seem to be either a powerseller or top rated seller, so there wouldn't be any of the discounts those sellers get.

For UK ebay stores, the fees are detailed here. if you want to figure them out.

Either way, $1.80 does seem really low. Even if ebay had some special promotion for sellers going on, those are generally focused on free/cheap insertion fees rather than final value fees.

If you figure this out, I'd be interested to know how the $1.80 came to be.

;) and also if I made a mistake in my calculations
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notmuchadoaboutnothing
Posts: 342
(5 of 14)

Re: WBR Seems Off

Nov 6, 2009 6:03 AM
forgot to mention - the seller is in the UK, so I think s/he would be subject to UK fees. In the past my sales to ebayers outside the USA were assessed fees based on my US membership, not based on which ebay site they were sold on. I don't think this has changed recently?
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thisismyepnid
Posts: 12
(6 of 14)

Re: WBR Seems Off

Nov 6, 2009 9:09 AM
Thanks for helping me try to figure this out. I'm not making any progress, though.

UK eBay fees are reported in £ not $, of course, and I'm absolutely terrible at dealing with currency conversions. But the percentages look roughly similar to US fees, and even though $495 is currently worth only about £300, it still doesn't seem possible that WBR could be that low.

Overall, WBR/GMB is about 7% in my reports since GMB started being reported. Another watch that sold for $330 about a week ago had WBR of $15.21, or about 5%.

Less than a half a percent just seems completely wrong. Store item, seller discounts, flat rate, UK site, whatever ..... I can't see anything, or any combination of things, that could account for WBR of less than half a percent.
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alssoftware
Posts: 148
(7 of 14)

Re: WBR Seems Off

Nov 6, 2009 9:52 AM
The item is in Spain but was listed on the US site.

 
<ListingType>StoresFixedPrice</ListingType>
<Location>EUROPE & USA</Location>
<Seller>
<UserID>luxuriatime</UserID>
<ShipToLocations>Worldwide</ShipToLocations>
<Site>US</Site>
<Country>ES</Country>
<US</RegistrationSite>



The transaction log should indicate under which program it was purchased. That would control the payout. The fees are from US site.

To be clear, if it was sold under the ES program, they did not compensate for items sales based on fees before QCP, they compensated per first bid/bin.

The seller could be a powerseller so there could be discounts.
If wasn't an auction, so no free listing.
There could be a coupon used.
Could have been a charity auction.

All that aside, there are bugs in the transaction logs. I've seen excessively low compensation and WBR that exceeded the item price in the past.
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thisismyepnid
Posts: 12
(8 of 14)

Re: WBR Seems Off

Nov 6, 2009 11:11 AM
The transaction log should indicate under which program it was purchased. That would control the payout. The fees are from US site.

To be clear, if it was sold under the ES program, they did not compensate for items sales based on fees before QCP, they compensated per first bid/bin.


Transaction report indicates it was purchased under the eBay US site.

The seller could be a powerseller so there could be discounts.


Seller doesn't have Powerseller or TRS badges. I guess they could be anyway but the badge isn't showing for some reason.

There could be a coupon used.
Could have been a charity auction.


Doesn't appear to be a charity auction.

I guess maybe a coupon could have been used. I have no idea how coupons work on eBay. I guess the revenue would occur when the coupon (or gift certificate) is purchased, not when it's redeemed. So my $500 watch sale would be considered nearly worthless to eBay due to a coupon being used? That's a nice thought.

All that aside, there are bugs in the transaction logs. I've seen excessively low compensation and WBR that exceeded the item price in the past.


And that's so very reassuring. ;) I've seen things in the reports that didn't look right before this, but this was the most extreme case I've run across.

Seems like a coupon or gift certificate might be the best explanation, or just an out-and-out bug in the report. It sure would be nice to have reports that were reliable and meaningful.
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alssoftware
Posts: 148
(9 of 14)

Re: WBR Seems Off

Nov 6, 2009 2:51 PM
Powersellers can choose to hide their badges.

Charity auctions, like BINs, lose the status indicators once they have sold. You can get a general impression of whether it's charity by looking at the sellers other auctions to see if they list everything with charity, but otherwise no way to tell. I found a google cache from Oct 26 - it wasn't a charity auction.

One thought...Since QCP is supposed to compensate for clicks on the basis of ad rev and paypal, I wonder if they are including any other revenue in the WBR besides the fees. If so, you could be compensated for that even though the buyer didn't buy the item. Seem unlikely though.

Link

As far as coupons go, the seller fees are probably still charged, but they might still take the money back from the affiliates.

Gift certificates are paid revenue, so they should be treated like any other funding source when redeemed and not affect the affiliate.
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thisismyepnid
Posts: 12
(10 of 14)

Re: WBR Seems Off

Nov 7, 2009 7:06 AM
I guess this will just remain a mystery, then. I've found other anomalies in the transaction reports, as well.

In one particular report, I have the same item showing up 3 times as Winning Bid (Revenue). Same Item ID, same sale price, same eBay revenue -- but 3 different "Unique Transaction IDs" and 3 different click timestamps, spread out over about 3 hours. Really? Did the same person buy the same item 3 times? And they clicked through from my site each time, over the course of 3 hours?

I'm not getting it confused with the entries for event types Bid/BIN and Winning Bid (Count). It also shows up 3 times for each of those.

Unfortunately, the item information has already rolled off of eBay, so I can't check the actual listing.

The more closely I look at the reports, the less I trust them.
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huey
Posts: 61
(11 of 14)

Re: WBR Seems Off

Nov 7, 2009 11:15 AM
Yeah, it sure seems to me like something is in error. This was reported as an eBay US transaction, and appeared in my transaction download for the eBay US program.

Has anyone else seen weird entries like this, where the numbers just don't seem right?


I looked at report today and saw a similar anomaly. However, digging further in my downloads I saw that this auction was previously compensated for much close to the correct amount. They must have made a correction and added $0.03 to a $221 sale. You should check your last 2 weeks download and see if that item id shows up somewhere else with another WBR amount.
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pawnshopsnet
Posts: 985
(12 of 14)

Re: WBR Seems Off

Nov 7, 2009 11:58 AM
I hadn't thought about that but that could be what the problem is. If the Event and Post date are more than a day apart that would be the reason.

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notmuchadoaboutnothing
Posts: 342
(13 of 14)

Re: WBR Seems Off

Nov 7, 2009 1:49 PM
One other thing that could decrease the WBR is ebay bucks. They have a promotion running right now that gives a buyer these bucks when they buy things on eBay. The buyer can use those to make further purchases on eBay. So if your situation isn't an ePN mistake, very possibly this might account for the low WBR. Those who enroll in the program earn 2% in eBay Bucks on all qualifying purchases. After the end of every calendar quarter, participants receive an eBay Bucks certificate and will have 30 days to spend it on eBay.

Just a thought....
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thisismyepnid
Posts: 12
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Re: WBR Seems Off

Nov 8, 2009 5:12 AM
digging further in my downloads I saw that this auction was previously compensated for much close to the correct amount. They must have made a correction and added $0.03 to a $221 sale. You should check your last 2 weeks download and see if that item id shows up somewhere else with another WBR amount.


Nope, that wasn't it. The click date was 10/31, event date was 11/4, and post date was 11/5. The item doesn't appear anywhere else in my reports from 10/31 through yesterday.

One other thing that could decrease the WBR is ebay bucks.


I guess eBay Bucks or a coupon of some sort would have to be the explanation. That, or ePN's reporting is majorly screwed up. I've found multiple instances of the same transaction appearing more than once, not with a correction or adjustment, but the exact same transaction, sometimes posted multiple times on the same day, sometimes posted on separate days but with the exact same information.

It makes me wonder what I can't see, and will never spot in my reports: Missing transactions that simply aren't reported.

These kinds of anomalies, with no explanation by ePN, don't inspire a lot of confidence in the reports.
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