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Last Post Mar 6, 2009 10:25 AM by: coro-king
Replies: 119
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auntie!
Posts: 2,093

Information on Imported FAKE Roseville, Hull or other pottery

Feb 1, 2003 6:24 AM
Want to sell Imported FAKE Roseville, Hull or other pottery?

Part one

Calling it "new" just doesn't make it.
Saying "marked" without disclosing age or country of origin. Does not make it!
It is up to the seller to know their product, follow Federal, local and customs laws, and disclose any imported ware as to the country of origin.

Selling 1 piece by accident can be understood but you would be best advised to refund the buyer their cost since the item was not as described. In other words it was not made by the company you named in the auction, whether you actually stated it was or not. You implied it was. Stating "this might be a reproduction" does not help. The import labels MUST remain intact until it is sold to the Ultimate purchaser.

The ``ultimate purchaser'' is generally the last person in the United States who will receive the article in the form in which it was imported
You, the seller are not the ultimate purchaser, Your buyer is.


Second part coming up


Never a need to retaliate or get upset.
They will always eventually hang themselves....Me
Remember the three R's:
Respect for self; Respect for others; Responsibility for all your actions

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auntie!
Posts: 2,093
(1 of 119)

Information on Imported FAKE Roseville, Hull or other pottery

Feb 1, 2003 6:25 AM
Part Two

. This could lead to charges of Mail Fraud against you.
Check out this case of a well known company selling undisclosed imports
"The Million Dollar T-Man"
A few excerpts from the article in the link above
"Agent Tye recently concluded a five-year fraud investigation with international implications in which a corporation pleaded guilty and was fined $1 million. This investigation involved a complex fraud scheme involving the import and sale of guitars, banjos, and other musical instruments by Wxxxxxx International, located in Vernon Hills, Ill."

"After a review of Wxxxxxxx's importing history, Tye's suspicions were confirmed: the company had violated numerous marking laws by selling instruments from which they had routinely stripped "Made in Korea" labels."

"Agent Tye and his team discovered that employees were removing the "Made in Korea" labels from instruments"

"The company pleaded guilty to two counts of mail fraud, and was sentenced to five years probation and ordered to pay a $1,000,000 fine, making this one of the largest criminal country of origin marking cases ever prosecuted in the United States."


And this company had an expensive attorney. Can you afford that?

Want to claim the buyer should have asked? Doesn't make it!
YOU are responsible as a seller to disclose the country of origin
YOU as a seller are responsible that the country of origin sticker/mark is intact and displayed in a manner that the buyer can readily see it

You are the one that can be prosecuted, not the buyer.
If it can happen to a large corporation it can and has already happened to the small seller.


Part Three Coming next


Never a need to retaliate or get upset.
They will always eventually hang themselves....Me
Remember the three R's:
Respect for self; Respect for others; Responsibility for all your actions

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auntie!
Posts: 2,093
(2 of 119)

Information on Imported FAKE Roseville, Hull or other pottery

Feb 1, 2003 6:26 AM
Part Three


Think you are covered because YOU didn't import it? WRONG!
If the made in China label is removed on an item you are selling YOU are the one in trouble if reported and YOU are the one who can/will be prosecuted

Does it have USA marked on it, but it is not made in USA?
You better NOT sell it unless the following is covered!

Sec. 134.4 Penalties for removal, defacement, or alteration of marking.

Any intentional removal, defacement, destruction, or alteration of a marking of the country of origin required by section 304, Tariff Act of 1930, as amended (19 U.S.C. 1304), and this part in order to conceal this information may result in criminal penalties of up to $5,000 and/or imprisonment for 1 year, as provided in 19 U.S.C. 1304(h). [T.D. 72-262, 37 FR 20318, Sept. 29, 1972, as amended by T.D. 90-51, 55 FR 28191, July 10, 1990]

Sec. 134.46 Marking when name of country or locality other than country of origin appears. In any case in which the words ``United States,'' or ``American,'' the letters ``U.S.A.,'' any variation of such words or letters, or the name of any city or location in the United States, or the name of any foreign country or locality other than the country or locality in which the article was manufactured or produced appear on an imported article or its container, and those words, letters or names may mislead or deceive the ultimate purchaser as to the actual country of origin of the article, there shall appear legibly and permanently in close proximity to such words, letters or name, and in at least a comparable size, the name of the country of origin preceded by ``Made in,'' ``Product of,'' or other words of similar meaning. [T.D. 97-72, 62 FR 44214, Aug. 20, 1997]

In other words those import fakes that have Roseville USA or Hull USA or just USA, and do not have a permant mark showing the country of origin can and will get the eBay seller in trouble.

Part Four Coming next


Never a need to retaliate or get upset.
They will always eventually hang themselves....Me
Remember the three R's:
Respect for self; Respect for others; Responsibility for all your actions

Reply
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auntie!
Posts: 2,093
(3 of 119)

Information on Imported FAKE Roseville, Hull or other pottery

Feb 1, 2003 6:27 AM
Part Four

Think you as a seller can remove the mark?
or resell an item that has had the mark of origin removed by the wholesaler you purchased from? Think again YOU are not the ultimate purchaser. Your buyer is. Until it arrives at it's final "resting place" with the ultimate purchaser, all retail persons handling it are responsible to see that the laws are enforced for it's distribution.

Read the following

Sec. 134.1 Definitions.

When used in this part, the following terms shall have the meaning indicated:

(b) Country of origin. ``Country of origin'' means the country of manufacture, production, or growth of any article of foreign origin entering the United States. Further work or material added to an article in another country must effect a substantial transformation in order to render such other country the ``country of origin'' within the meaning of this part; however, for a good of a NAFTA country, the NAFTA Marking Rules will determine the country of origin.

(d) Ultimate purchaser. The ``ultimate purchaser'' is generally the last person in the United States who will receive the article in the form in which it was imported; however, for a good of a NAFTA country, the ``ultimate purchaser'' is the last person in the United States who purchases the good in the form in which it was imported. It is not feasible to state who will be the ``ultimate purchaser'' in every circumstance. The following examples may be helpful:

(3) If an article is to be sold at retail in its imported form, the purchaser at retail is the ``ultimate purchaser.''

(4) If the imported article is distributed as a gift the recipient is the ``ultimate purchaser'', unless the good is a good of a NAFTA country. In that case, the purchaser of the gift is the ultimate purchaser.

(deleted for space)

(k) Conspicuous. ``Conspicuous'' means capable of being easily seen with normal handling of the article or container. [T.D. 72-262, 37 FR 20318, Sept. 29, 1972, as amended by T.D. 94-1, 58 FR 69471, Dec. 30, 1993; T.D. 95-68, 60 FR 46362, Sept. 6, 1995]


Part Five Coming Next


Never a need to retaliate or get upset.
They will always eventually hang themselves....Me
Remember the three R's:
Respect for self; Respect for others; Responsibility for all your actions

Reply
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auntie!
Posts: 2,093
(4 of 119)

Information on Imported FAKE Roseville, Hull or other pottery

Feb 1, 2003 6:27 AM
Part Five

MARKING - See: Article 311, Annex 311, 19 CFR 102, 134, and 174
6. Merchandise Found Not Legally Marked

In cases where merchandise is imported which does not comply with marking requirements, Customs may issue a Customs Form 4647 Notice of Marking (or a Notice of Redelivery if the goods have been released), impose marking duties, seize such merchandise, or establish claims for liquidated damages and/or claims for monetary penalty. The action taken depends on the individual circumstances surrounding the import transaction. Generally, cases involving failure to comply with marking requirements fall into one or more of the following four categories:

The merchandise is not properly marked at the time of entry.
There are false, deceptive and/or misleading markings on the imported merchandise and/or its containers.
There is a false certification that the imported merchandise and/or its container are properly marked, or there is a failure to notify subsequent purchasers or repackers of the marking requirements.
The imported merchandise and/or its container comply with the marking requirements at the time of entry, but there is subsequent removal or alteration of the marking.

3. ADVANCE RULINGS - See: Article 509, 19 CFR 181, Subpart I
I. INTRODUCTION

The U.S. Customs Service strongly urges all parties engaged in transactions relating to the importation of goods into the United States to obtain binding advice from the U.S. Customs Service prior to undertaking that transaction. In the case of importations under the NAFTA, guidance can be obtained by requesting an advance ruling in accordance with Part 181, Subpart I of the Customs Regulations.



Never a need to retaliate or get upset.
They will always eventually hang themselves....Me
Remember the three R's:
Respect for self; Respect for others; Responsibility for all your actions

Reply
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auntie!
Posts: 2,093
(5 of 119)

Information on Imported FAKE Roseville, Hull or other pottery

Feb 1, 2003 6:29 AM
I have made webpages with this information and links to the government website where it can be read in full

Rulings

mail fraud

Sec. 134.46

Annex 311

There is much more in the regulations. But it would be a HUGE thread if I copied all here.

I gathered just enough to show that there has been a mis informed thought that it was OK as long as it is marked Roseville or Hull or etc, to just say that and not state the country of origin.
Some seem to think they can just claim the sticker was removed prior to their purchasing it. That does not cover your rump I'm sorry to say.
You as a retailer are responsible for disclosure.
If you don't know for a fact if it is an import that is improperly marked you as the seller need to find out. Courts and investigators do not like to hear "I thought" or "someone else did it"

They go by facts and the fact is you sold an import without proper markings.
And in many cases a second form of fraud due to misrepresentation is practiced.
Selling items that are clearly NOT as marked (Roseville, Hull etc) is fraud by deception


Besides Mail Fraud there are actually other agencies that can and may prosecute, including the new internet fraud sections of law enforcement agencies popping up all over the country just because of this type of practice

Lets clean eBay up from this type of behavior destroying our USA collectibles market.

There is money to be made by doing it legitimately

Thank you all for putting up with my rant


Never a need to retaliate or get upset.
They will always eventually hang themselves....Me
Remember the three R's:
Respect for self; Respect for others; Responsibility for all your actions

Reply
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cherry-pie-and-roses
Posts: 4,657
(6 of 119)

Information on Imported FAKE Roseville, Hull or other pottery

Feb 11, 2003 12:29 PM
Here is a source about fakes & reproductions:

Link

Who has others?


GPSA Glass & Pottery Sellers' Association * NAVT
Needle Arts & Vintage Textiles Board * Facebook
Group Blocked Bidders List - eBay BBL



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cherry-pie-and-roses
Posts: 4,657
(7 of 119)

Information on Imported FAKE Roseville, Hull or other pottery

Feb 11, 2003 12:30 PM
And another:

Link


GPSA Glass & Pottery Sellers' Association * NAVT
Needle Arts & Vintage Textiles Board * Facebook
Group Blocked Bidders List - eBay BBL



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cherry-pie-and-roses
Posts: 4,657
(8 of 119)

Information on Imported FAKE Roseville, Hull or other pottery

Feb 11, 2003 12:34 PM
Link


GPSA Glass & Pottery Sellers' Association * NAVT
Needle Arts & Vintage Textiles Board * Facebook
Group Blocked Bidders List - eBay BBL



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anonymousboardaholic
Posts: 24
(9 of 119)

Information on Imported FAKE Roseville, Hull or other pottery

Feb 11, 2003 12:42 PM
Link

One on Iris and Herringbone (Glass)
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anonymousboardaholic
Posts: 24
(10 of 119)

Information on Imported FAKE Roseville, Hull or other pottery

Feb 11, 2003 12:52 PM
Link (another glass site)
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auntie!
Posts: 2,093
(11 of 119)

Information on Imported FAKE Roseville, Hull or other pottery

Feb 11, 2003 2:39 PM
A little "quirp" I found
The original McCoy Pottery Company never copyrighted their trademark. Although the company was sold in 1985 to Ralph Porto, he did not register the name as a trademark until 1991, a year AFTER the company (then called Designer Accents) closed its doors in 1990.

There is some confusion at this point. The name was also registered as a trademark in 1992 by Roger Jensen of Tennessee. Jensen, with his company called, "The New McCoy Pottery", had been using the McCoy mark on many cookie jars that he was producing. One of these cookie jars is the Little Red Riding Hood shown above. Facing the controversy over the trademark, Jensen ceased using the "McCoy" mark and began marking his jars, "Brush-McCoy". Again, this was challenged and as of 1997 Jensen is no longer LEGALLY able to use the word McCoy in any manner on his jars. His jars, IF marked, bear the marking of "B.M. Hull."

A note also on the Hull marking. Apparently he or others have moved on with this by producing fake Hull items now found on eBay, Such as the wallpocket that is marked Hull but does not have the flower decoration at the hole, a few other items that were never produced by Hull, and the coloring, quality and glaze are terrible on all of them!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good idea to give links to fake and repro sites for both pottery and glass.

How about we gather them all together in one post every once in awhile to make it easier on the persons searching

Fakes, Knockoffs, Reproductions and other information to help you follow the time-honored admonition:
Link

Link
Jadite Reproductions and Fantasy Items

Just Plain FAKE
Link

McCoy FAKE Little Red Riding Hood Cookie Jar
Link


One on Iris and Herringbone (Glass)
Link

another glass site
Link

FAKE COOKIE JAR ALERT
Link

Fake, Reproduction & Commemorative Commercial China
Link

Is it FAKE or REAL
Link

RECENT Shelley Chintz FAKES
Link

Fakes ROSEVILLE
Link

Fakes ROSEVILLE
Link

Hull wallpocket fake alert
Link


Never a need to retaliate or get upset.
They will always eventually hang themselves....Me
Remember the three R's:
Respect for self; Respect for others; Responsibility for all your actions

Reply
Name:
Email:
 
Tip: To create a link - type the desired text, highlight it with your mouse and click[Click for url tag]
Tags:
 
)
auntie!
Posts: 2,093
(12 of 119)

Information on Imported FAKE Roseville, Hull or other pottery

Feb 11, 2003 2:41 PM
Muttering about closing tags
A little "quirp" I found
"The original McCoy Pottery Company never copyrighted their trademark. Although the company was sold in 1985 to Ralph Porto, he did not register the name as a trademark until 1991, a year AFTER the company (then called Designer Accents) closed its doors in 1990.

There is some confusion at this point. The name was also registered as a trademark in 1992 by Roger Jensen of Tennessee. Jensen, with his company called, "The New McCoy Pottery", had been using the McCoy mark on many cookie jars that he was producing. One of these cookie jars is the Little Red Riding Hood shown above. Facing the controversy over the trademark, Jensen ceased using the "McCoy" mark and began marking his jars, "Brush-McCoy". Again, this was challenged and as of 1997 Jensen is no longer LEGALLY able to use the word McCoy in any manner on his jars. His jars, IF marked, bear the marking of "B.M. Hull."


A note also on the Hull marking. Apparently he or others have moved on with this by producing fake Hull items now found on eBay, Such as the wallpocket that is marked Hull but does not have the flower decoration at the hole, a few other items that were never produced by Hull, and the coloring, quality and glaze are terrible on all of them!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good idea to give links to fake and repro sites for both pottery and glass.

How about we gather them all together in one post every once in awhile to make it easier on the persons searching

Fakes, Knockoffs, Reproductions and other information to help you follow the time-honored admonition:
Link

Link
Jadite Reproductions and Fantasy Items

Just Plain FAKE
Link

McCoy FAKE Little Red Riding Hood Cookie Jar
Link


One on Iris and Herringbone (Glass)
Link

another glass site
Link

FAKE COOKIE JAR ALERT
Link

Fake, Reproduction & Commemorative Commercial China
Link

Is it FAKE or REAL
Link

RECENT Shelley Chintz FAKES
Link

Fakes ROSEVILLE
Link

Fakes ROSEVILLE
Link

Hull wallpocket fake alert
Link


Never a need to retaliate or get upset.
They will always eventually hang themselves....Me
Remember the three R's:
Respect for self; Respect for others; Responsibility for all your actions

Reply
Name:
Email:
 
Tip: To create a link - type the desired text, highlight it with your mouse and click[Click for url tag]
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)
auntie!
Posts: 2,093
(13 of 119)

Information on Imported FAKE Roseville, Hull or other pottery

Feb 11, 2003 2:50 PM
Found a couple more

Fake Nippon
Link

Fake and reproduction Pickle Casters
Link


Never a need to retaliate or get upset.
They will always eventually hang themselves....Me
Remember the three R's:
Respect for self; Respect for others; Responsibility for all your actions

Reply
Name:
Email:
 
Tip: To create a link - type the desired text, highlight it with your mouse and click[Click for url tag]
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)
rosevillelover
Posts: 1,520
(14 of 119)

Information on Imported FAKE Roseville, Hull or other pottery

Feb 11, 2003 4:54 PM
Auntie - Zowie! What a lot of research you did, and some excellent information. I am glad to see the links which you (and others) posted as well.

As a serious collector, it breaks my spirit to hear of new potential collectors who got ripped off by unscrupulous sellers of reproduction goods. Thank goodness that those butt-ugly repros didn't exist back in 1984 when I picked up this little green vase I thought was cute. Turns out that was my first piece of Roseville, but certainly not my last.

Having said this, thank you again for taking the time to teach all of us. Your posts to this board are always educational.

Natalie


Frequently wrong, but rarely in doubt!

~~~~Natalie~~~~
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