epipins wrote:

they are the big fish in the auction pond, so they can do whatever they want........

I am sure the same thing was said about GM a number of years ago

Hello!!!!

As for the question.  I think the last time I really cared about getting a star was when I took piano lessons at 5.  For it being unethical,  I really couldn't say.  I rather see something simpler,  I made power and top rated, but I did this by trying to do good business.  Not to earn stars.  I believe the rating system needs a little tweeking.

Churchill once said.  The Americans will get it right first time after they've tried everything else.

Maybe we're a group of trial and error humans!

That is false ross3804!  If you come in my sandbox, (my home or business) I can't force you using fear tactics to blackmail you or extort/ steal from you!

Just because we are in their business doesn't give ANYONE or ANY COMPANY the right to commit crimes of any nature on customers or tenants just becasue they are in their premises.  Virtual or not.    If you invite me into your shop you cannot punch me in the nose and steal my wallet then point to policy that says you can.

Ebay uses DSR's (which could be lies, accidents or Ebay low numbers stuffing) as threats to raise our rent and damage our reputation by with "ANONYMOUS disgruntled customers".

Try taking anonymous witnesses into a court of law to decide cases and see how far that gets you.  DSR's are hearsay.  Nothing more.

Snappy, I see those DSRs meaning less and less with all of the exemptions eBay is selecting to grant to sellers.

I have to admit that this latest one of no communication = no bad communication DSR has me puzzled.  It is so necessary to me to be able to communicate with the buyer if there is a problem with an order on either side.  eBay is basically thwarting good business practices for what -- the sake of us not getting a person's email?

Paypal gives us their email when we print the label.  Does eBay?

What are they thinking there?  I've been convinced I have to give my buyers a "delightful" experience.  Or is that part of the old 3-year plan and not to be followed?

The new 3 year plan is do away with those rabble-rousing sellers who cause all of the CS problems with their incessant communication.  Last month, communication good.  Get star. This month (or next month) communication bad.  Get star not to communicate.

It's a puzzlement.

There's been what amounts to a very subtle shift in DSRs recently, and I've seen nobody voice it.  It concerns me and goes to the heart of the topic question - but adds one more element I think important to consider too - are DSRs actually accurate.

One can argue that as long as they've been around, they certainly never were required to represent fact - though they were USED as if they did.  JD himself when asked a couple years ago in context with their advertised purpose - answered that if a buyer wants to be assured of 'good service' (CS wise - fulfillment wise - all that) that buyers seek to purchase from TRS sellers - that is - those with the BEST DSRs that awarded that status in kind.  Effectively tossing all the rest of the sellers penalized by 'opinion' under the bus.

And eBay has never considered 'opinion' veracity to begin with.  Certainly DSRs have been the subject of so much abuse - and that continues.

Meanwhile - eBay has slowly but inexorably been subtly changing them from what a BUYER might be inclined to perceive - thus 'award' - thus 'render status' - to what eBay PREFERS despite what buyer's might otherwise prefer.

They started with ship cost - if 'free' - then you get a 5 automatically.  Followed shortly by assessing fees on ship cost so to 'serve the buyer's desire for free shipping' being 'prevalent' by eBay's declaration.

But then they 'suggest' that all ship 'costs' be embedded in item price.  Thereby RAISING the price as more of those costs (including the fee) can be HIDDEN in the price itself.  Thus, a seller who charges MORE bottom line to the buyer - but advertises the ship portion as 'free' - and thus also garners more FEES for eBay - is rewarded with an automatic perfect 5 stars, even though the buyer is actually paying MORE than they would if the seller charged lesser shipping but subjected themselves to buyer 'opinion' for it.

eBay USED the buyers and this nonsense about free ship 'industry standard' to garner more fees.  And potentially penalize the seller who doesn't 'comply'.  And withOUT any concern to the HIGHER price the buyer pays.  And this serves the buyer HOW again?

Then - eBay decided to address ship TIME.  Next day = 5 stars.  Doesn't mean you actually have to SHIP next day - just print the label.  And the best way to do that?  Use THEIR eBay ship label process.  Garnering them more fees.  And the buyers?  Well, their opinion again no longer matters.  Whether it's feasible - or reasonable for the seller to accomplish this - and DESPITE the many buyers who are perfectly FINE with it taking say TWO days to get a cumbersome item out the door and provide the necessary care in packaging accordingly - THEIR opinion no longer matters.  You don't do one day ship - you don't get to be assured of that 5th star.  Leaving the 'system' still wide open for abuse.  And again, removing buyer CHOICE from the equation.

NOW - most recently - eBay has declared that IF you leave all comms up to eBay between you and the seller (so to better assure eBay they won't be cut-out somehow) - then ...again....5-stars for comms.  Meaning that you are considered a PERFECT communicator by NOT communicating at all.  Just HOPE the buyer doesn't have any actual questions - then you're open for 'opinion' again.  Otherwise - not. 

So what this unethical (fee grabbing), immoral (opinion = fact for manipulation purpose) and now innacurate (3/4 areas no longer buyer assessment, rather eBay assessment to THEIR desires despite buyer 'need' and service - yet ADVERTISED still as being 'buyer derived') system is now - is beyond distasteful in all those arenas.

Funny nobody seems to be addressing those things in context. 

That is - when a buyer looks at a sellers DSRs now - what exactly is being portrayed?  A seller who other buyer's feel is worthy?   Or just one that eBay does - because THEY have decided FOR the buyer what's best for them (so to collect higher fees).

I think the question now answers itself, don't you?

-------- Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - - Mark Twain

It's been tried before.  PSU.

System not right and it is very flawed

Hello!!!!

it is not right

It is just a picture of a pair of breasts. Breasts are just breasts. There is nothing rude or crude or dirty or sinful about breasts. Those adjectives apply to the thoughts engendered by the image in the viewers. The use of the picture tells you very little about user. But the reactions it gets tells volumes. "are you skilled in scanning bills to determine if they are counterfeit?"

stillmee wrote:

Hmmmm....does eBay pay you for your very biased opinions????

If they did pay me, that would be more money than I make here trying to sell off my inventory.

Marv is right.  My bias is pro-seller.  So maybe you should reread as he suggested. 

Hmmmm....does eBay pay you for your very biased opinions????

I'm a full time eBay seller hand have been since August of 1997.

For years I was a Gold Power Seller.   Until the Ebay Detailed Seller Ratings program came into being. A nice little tool that allows ebay corporate execs to "borrow" your money to make interest for the corporation's bottom line.

Outrageous? sure.  Over reaching?  certainly. Illegal?...

Ebay has a relatively new addition to it's tried and true Feedback system of positive, negative or neutral. Now there's another more subtle and subjective level of feedback that bidders are asked to complete called "DETAILED SELLER RATINGS" OR "DSR". It rates on a 1-5 star scale how satisfied you are with your item purchased, shipping time, shipping costs etc.

I sell one of a kind, mostly used and second hand items.

I sell a lot of items that appeal to 18-24 year olds.

18-24 year old people know nothing other than instant gratification.  They can be blunt and very honest.

You can almost always not get it to them fast enough.

Although I have shipped twice a week since 1997, that isn't fast enough for some.  Even though they received their item in the time specified in the listing terms and conditions and left positive feedback for their purchases,  a few would leave a below standard 1-2 star shipping dsr.

Not knowing that to do so would allow eBay to tell Paypal to place an up to a 21 day restriction on the release of MY money.

If one too many bidders subjectively leaves a dsr below the standard (the bar is 3 and you get 4) ebay will place a restriction with paypal on the release of your funds until your account is compliant.  Even thought the feedback left for the item is positive.  This is not an unhappy bidder.  This is a happy bidder that my have been commenting on the speed of the USPS and not myself the seller.

I use the Christmas season as exhibit A:

Every year I joke with my wife about quitting selling during December because of a combination of slow shipping times and high bidder expectations.  I would wager that this past December, many good reliable long term eBay sellers fell out of DSR compliance due to shipping cost or time.

Let's say it's December and 5 packages are delayed in a truck that is snowed in a midwest blizzard.   I shipped on time.  estimated delivery 2-3 days priority mail.  it makes it there in 5 days.  It's close Christmas so everybody is stressed about gifts anyway.  Comes time to take the post sale dsr survey and all 5 leave a 1-2 star DSR on shipping speed on the same day putting below the maximum of 3 DSR ratings below 3 stars.....

IT WILL TAKE 12 MONTHS FOR DSR RATINGS TO 'FALL OFF" YOUR RECORD.

TWELVE MONTHS

ONE YEAR

Because of something outside and beyond your control was delayed in shipping.

I do not control shipping costs.  I do not charge a handling fee.

I put in the weight and a zip code and print the label.

When completing  the DSR survey, if a bidder has an opportunity and the right to complain about shipping costs or speed they have no idea that by doing so they are taking away my ability to pay my bills and eat!

This is not a joke or a hobby for me, this is how I make it.

This terrible policy is not well thought out.

It is cruel and unusual punishment and at some point will be eventually scrapped of found to be in violation of anti-trust laws.

Ebay owns Paypal.  ebay/paypal does not have a close competitor.

Meanwhile I have over $1k frozen in paypal account for them to earn interest on while I need to get my car repaired and I have an electric bill now overdue.

Here's another nasty little aspect of the hold.

When your ebay fees come due say $200 ( an average month of fees for me)  and you have lets say $1000 of your money in paypal but only $100 available at the time.  They will take your seller fees from your attached bank account rather than pull it from the funds on hold.  Causing other bills set up on autopay to post unpaid or rack up an nsf fees from the unexpected bank transfer.

This $1000 i speak of is not hypothetical.

IT'S MY REAL MONEY!

    E'bay wouldn't be the biggest giant to fall on hard times for forgetting what got them where they are, Greed will get the better of them somewhere along the line.

    I thought E'bay SELLERS produced all of the income for E'bay....I've never paid a BUYERS fee when I bought something ?

    E'bay, if you continue to abuse your sellers....they'll turn away from you in groves. Maybe too much " management " in this case of the star system, and imposing penalties on sellers that just don't accomplish a thing except to gain E'bay more of the sellers money. ( like they don't already get enough of it )