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Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards

(1 of 155)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 25, 2005 09:41 AM

This is a long read but may be well worth your while, it is an excerpt from something I am compiling.

As lovers of sports, we idolize our heroes we live and die by our favorite teams won and loss record. Collecting memorabilia is nothing new to the sports enthusiatst. With the advent of the internet and online auctions, accessibility to collecting has taken on a whole new dimension. What used to be something you did on a weekend, by going to a card show or an autograph signing has taken on a new dimension. Twenty four hours a day seven days a week, you can find just about anything you maybe interested in collecting online. From cards to autographs, bottle caps to jerseys it’s there if you want it.

Unfortunately with this easy access comes a price. The internet provides a level of anonymity for thieves and cons that has never before been seen. Unscrupolous vendors can now reach into your pocket from around the globe. These people can set up an identity sell thousands of dollars worth of bogus products, shut down and open up again under a new name within a matter days. Some may even operate several different selling accounts at once.

Law enforcement agencies are almost powerless to stop them. Sites like eBay are unable to police every posted article of merchandise. So who is going to protect you against these new age cyber villains? You, that’s who. The only defense you and I have is to become educated. You need to be able to spot a bogus sale when you see it, you need to adhere to the rule, that if it’s to good to be true it can’t be real. Learn to spot the telltale signs of a bogus seller and you’ll save yourselves hundreds, if not thousands of dollars and a lot of aggravation.

If you follow these simple rules before buying a Vintage Card on an internet auction you are likely not to get ripped off.

1. Never buy from a seller that has private Feedback. Why would an honest seller want to hide their feedback?
2. Never bid on an auction where the buyer’s ID is kept private. The other bidders are likely to be shills.
3. Never buy from a seller that does not have a return policy. Honest dealers will always stand behind their products.
4. If buying a graded card make sure it comes in one of these holders PSA, BGS, BVG, SGC, or GAI any other companies grading vintage cards just do not offer the expertise of the companies mentioned.
5. Research your seller do as much homework as you can on the seller you are buying from.
6. Seek a second opinion. There are plenty of discussion boards all over the net for people interested in collecting Vintage Cards.
7. If your not sure don’t buy there will always be another card.

The cards that most commonly are counterfeited in the hobby include: 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth, 1933 Goudey Nap Lajoie, T206 Honus Wagner, and the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle. These cards represent the Holy Grail of Vintage card collecting and one should approach buying them on the net with extreme caution. They are offered on a daily basis, all you have to do is a search.

Image hosted by Photobucket.com The T206 Honus Wagner Card would be the jewel of any vintage card collection. This highly sought after card is as rare as a baseball card gets. Rumor has it that after it was printed as a premium for cigarette products Wagner, had the card removed because he did not want children buying cigarettes to obtain his image. Since that time there have been 50-75 known acknowledged authentic examples of this card.

Image hosted by Photobucket.comThe 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle #311 The best example of this card a PSA-8 which sold at the Robert Edwards Auction in 2000 for a record $1.27 million. In 2004 a PSA PR-FR 1 sold for $110,000 at the spring Mastronet Auction. As cards go a PSA 1 is as bad as it gets. This means the card has creases, stains, maybe a partial tear, but it is still recognizable. So what would make you think that you can buy one online in a decent condition for a few hundred dollars?

Image hosted by Photobucket.comThe 1933 Babe Ruth Goudey #53 of note there are three other Babe Ruth cards in the set #144, 149, and 181 which are also regularly reproduced. The Babe, the Bambino, the Sultan of Swat, the most storied baseball player ever. Ruth put baseball back on the map, what true baseball card collector would not want to own this piece of cardboard. With the 1933 Goudeys, the red printing on the front of the card tends to be "ghosted" onto the back surface, standard size of the card should be 2 3/8 inches by 2 7/8 inches.

Image hosted by Photobucket.comThe 1933 Goudey Nap Lajoie The story behind this card is plain and simple supply versus demand. In 1933 Goudey did not produce this card and therefore the set did not contain card number 106. In 1934 when collectors complained, Goudey produced and sent the card to those collectors who asked for it. The card has a 1933 front with a 1934 back. To date there are about 100 known examples of this card.

The Top List of Counterfieted Cards includes
1. 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth Cards #’s 144, 149, 181
2. 1933 Goudey Lou Gehrig #160
3. 1933 Sport Kings Babe Ruth #2
4. 1948 Leaf Joe Dimaggio #1
5. 1948 Leaf Babe Ruth #3
6. 1949 Bowman Jackie Robinson #50
7. 1951 Topps Willie Mays Rookie #305
8. 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle Rookie #253
9. 1952 Topps Willie Mays Rookie #251
10. 1953 Topps Jackie Robinson #1
11. 1954 Topps Hank Aaron Rookie #128
12. 1955 Topps Roberto Clemente Rookie #164
13. 1955 Topps Sandy Koufax #123
14. 1968 Topps Nolan Ryan Rookie #177
15. 1968 Topps Bobby Orr Rookie (Hockey)
16. 1986 Fleer Michael Jordan Rookie #57 (Basketball)
17. 1979-80 O-Pee-Chee Wayne Gretzky Rookie #18 (Hockey)
18. 1963 Topps #537 Pete Rose RC
19. 1969 Topps #250 Reggie Jackson RC
20. 1980 Topps #482 Rickey Henderson RC
21. 1982 Donruss #405 Cal Ripken Jr. RC
22. 1982 Topps #21 Cal Ripken Jr. RC
23. 1985 Topps # 401 Mark McGwire RC

When looking to purchase these cards be very careful whom you are dealing with. Purchase them in a graded condition.


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Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards

(154 Replies / 17,256 Views)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 25, 2005 09:41 AM

This is a long read but may be well worth your while, it is an excerpt from something I am compiling.

As lovers of sports, we idolize our heroes we live and die by our favorite teams won and loss record. Collecting memorabilia is nothing new to the sports enthusiatst. With the advent of the internet and online auctions, accessibility to collecting has taken on a whole new dimension. What used to be something you did on a weekend, by going to a card show or an autograph signing has taken on a new dimension. Twenty four hours a day seven days a week, you can find just about anything you maybe interested in collecting online. From cards to autographs, bottle caps to jerseys it’s there if you want it.

Unfortunately with this easy access comes a price. The internet provides a level of anonymity for thieves and cons that has never before been seen. Unscrupolous vendors can now reach into your pocket from around the globe. These people can set up an identity sell thousands of dollars worth of bogus products, shut down and open up again under a new name within a matter days. Some may even operate several different selling accounts at once.

Law enforcement agencies are almost powerless to stop them. Sites like eBay are unable to police every posted article of merchandise. So who is going to protect you against these new age cyber villains? You, that’s who. The only defense you and I have is to become educated. You need to be able to spot a bogus sale when you see it, you need to adhere to the rule, that if it’s to good to be true it can’t be real. Learn to spot the telltale signs of a bogus seller and you’ll save yourselves hundreds, if not thousands of dollars and a lot of aggravation.

If you follow these simple rules before buying a Vintage Card on an internet auction you are likely not to get ripped off.

1. Never buy from a seller that has private Feedback. Why would an honest seller want to hide their feedback?
2. Never bid on an auction where the buyer’s ID is kept private. The other bidders are likely to be shills.
3. Never buy from a seller that does not have a return policy. Honest dealers will always stand behind their products.
4. If buying a graded card make sure it comes in one of these holders PSA, BGS, BVG, SGC, or GAI any other companies grading vintage cards just do not offer the expertise of the companies mentioned.
5. Research your seller do as much homework as you can on the seller you are buying from.
6. Seek a second opinion. There are plenty of discussion boards all over the net for people interested in collecting Vintage Cards.
7. If your not sure don’t buy there will always be another card.

The cards that most commonly are counterfeited in the hobby include: 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth, 1933 Goudey Nap Lajoie, T206 Honus Wagner, and the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle. These cards represent the Holy Grail of Vintage card collecting and one should approach buying them on the net with extreme caution. They are offered on a daily basis, all you have to do is a search.

Image hosted by Photobucket.com The T206 Honus Wagner Card would be the jewel of any vintage card collection. This highly sought after card is as rare as a baseball card gets. Rumor has it that after it was printed as a premium for cigarette products Wagner, had the card removed because he did not want children buying cigarettes to obtain his image. Since that time there have been 50-75 known acknowledged authentic examples of this card.

Image hosted by Photobucket.comThe 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle #311 The best example of this card a PSA-8 which sold at the Robert Edwards Auction in 2000 for a record $1.27 million. In 2004 a PSA PR-FR 1 sold for $110,000 at the spring Mastronet Auction. As cards go a PSA 1 is as bad as it gets. This means the card has creases, stains, maybe a partial tear, but it is still recognizable. So what would make you think that you can buy one online in a decent condition for a few hundred dollars?

Image hosted by Photobucket.comThe 1933 Babe Ruth Goudey #53 of note there are three other Babe Ruth cards in the set #144, 149, and 181 which are also regularly reproduced. The Babe, the Bambino, the Sultan of Swat, the most storied baseball player ever. Ruth put baseball back on the map, what true baseball card collector would not want to own this piece of cardboard. With the 1933 Goudeys, the red printing on the front of the card tends to be "ghosted" onto the back surface, standard size of the card should be 2 3/8 inches by 2 7/8 inches.

Image hosted by Photobucket.comThe 1933 Goudey Nap Lajoie The story behind this card is plain and simple supply versus demand. In 1933 Goudey did not produce this card and therefore the set did not contain card number 106. In 1934 when collectors complained, Goudey produced and sent the card to those collectors who asked for it. The card has a 1933 front with a 1934 back. To date there are about 100 known examples of this card.

The Top List of Counterfieted Cards includes
1. 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth Cards #’s 144, 149, 181
2. 1933 Goudey Lou Gehrig #160
3. 1933 Sport Kings Babe Ruth #2
4. 1948 Leaf Joe Dimaggio #1
5. 1948 Leaf Babe Ruth #3
6. 1949 Bowman Jackie Robinson #50
7. 1951 Topps Willie Mays Rookie #305
8. 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle Rookie #253
9. 1952 Topps Willie Mays Rookie #251
10. 1953 Topps Jackie Robinson #1
11. 1954 Topps Hank Aaron Rookie #128
12. 1955 Topps Roberto Clemente Rookie #164
13. 1955 Topps Sandy Koufax #123
14. 1968 Topps Nolan Ryan Rookie #177
15. 1968 Topps Bobby Orr Rookie (Hockey)
16. 1986 Fleer Michael Jordan Rookie #57 (Basketball)
17. 1979-80 O-Pee-Chee Wayne Gretzky Rookie #18 (Hockey)
18. 1963 Topps #537 Pete Rose RC
19. 1969 Topps #250 Reggie Jackson RC
20. 1980 Topps #482 Rickey Henderson RC
21. 1982 Donruss #405 Cal Ripken Jr. RC
22. 1982 Topps #21 Cal Ripken Jr. RC
23. 1985 Topps # 401 Mark McGwire RC

When looking to purchase these cards be very careful whom you are dealing with. Purchase them in a graded condition.


Page: 1 of 7
 
Last Post
by imnorrfan (561 ) View Listings
(1 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 25, 2005 09:48 AM
Very solid advice. Informative and easy to read.
(2 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 25, 2005 10:12 AM
Ooops forgot the 1953 Topps Mickey Mantle #53


(3 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 25, 2005 10:13 AM
and the number is #82 on the Mantle lol this place for sure needs an edit button


(4 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 25, 2005 10:16 AM
Beautiful! Thanks Al! It bears repeating: NEW BUYERS!!! PLEASE NOTE! BEWARE OF BUYING THE ABOVE MENTIONED CARDS IN AN UNGRADED CONDITION! IF YOU DO YOUR ODDS OF BEING RIPPED OFF ARE VERY HIGH! WHEN IT COMES TO THESE CARDS, THERE ARE NO "AMAZING DEALS" Ebay, please nail this thread to the top of the board! DW



DW

(5 of 154)
Re: Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 25, 2005 10:30 AM
awwww Al, not the old Wagner "kids shouldn't smoke" theory :)

Wagner wanted a royalty, American Tobacco said no, and Wagner threatened to sue so they pulled his card. MOO, of course. Old Honus is said to have chewed tobaccy for many a year.
(6 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 25, 2005 10:35 AM
Bud
lol that's why I said rumored......


(7 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 25, 2005 11:04 AM
Good Al!

One of these days we should compile a book and sell it on eBay!! :^O
(8 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 25, 2005 11:54 AM
"One of these days we should compile a book and sell it on eBay!!" Dave, If you do, I will counterfeit it and sell them on ebay.]:) ramsfan29
(9 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 25, 2005 12:24 PM
Dave
funny you should say that :-D


(10 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 26, 2005 03:40 PM
Watching (and bumping) until this gets tacked to the top.

DW



DW

(11 of 154)
Re: Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 26, 2005 03:45 PM
EXCELLENT post Al.
(12 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 26, 2005 03:48 PM
Just to add a detail to the Orr rookie Al, it's the 1966-67 Topps #35.
(13 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 26, 2005 07:39 PM
Very nicely done Al. eBay, please tack this to the top.
(14 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 28, 2005 05:11 PM
*bump* Will this get tacked?




My Guestbook An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest.

(15 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 28, 2005 06:31 PM
I saw this when posted Al--can't remember if I acknowleged a fine effort!!

Move over Bubs--I'm catching CRS too!!!!


If you are not supposed to stick Q-Tips in your ears, then what in the hell are they for? Ole' Don swears by 'em!

My favorite thing about the Internet is that you get to go into the private world of real creeps without having to smell them.

FRED

(16 of 154)
Re: Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 28, 2005 09:48 PM
very solid advice, alinchitown. thanks to reading this board before attempting to buy any vintage cards, I learned not to buy from bogus grading companies like GEM or PRO. And to be extremely skeptical when buying cards.

a psa 1 1952 topps mantle sold for about as much as the last psa 1 T-206 Honus Wagner did. Does this mean that the two are on equal ground as far as most desirable card goes? There has to be way more of the Mantles than the Wagners though. I always thought the Hans was by far and away the most sought after card.
(17 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 28, 2005 10:48 PM
Ace, it would mean that on those particular days the number of interested parties happen to pay more for the Mantle. In other words, the right people saw the Mantle to pay that price, due in part by the sellers listing skills and/or feedback, ect.

You might find complete opposite outcome on a different day.

Image hosted by Photobucket.com This post as been severely edited to be allowed by the ebay censors. Bubs


Image hosted by Photobucket.com ~May you make it to Heaven before the devil realizes you're dead~ ‹(•¿•)› Bubs

(18 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 29, 2005 07:59 AM
Ace
More than likely the reasoning for the popularity of the Mantle is the fact that people from my age bracket 45+ grew up with knowing the Mick as the baseball player of baseball players. Collectors our age have more disposable income to spend on an item like this, than younger collectors, and yes there are collectors younger than the age group I mentioned with lots of money.

As far as the Wagner is concerned like I wrote to date (and this is info put together from many sources) there are 50-75 known authentic examples of the card. Not to say there aren't more but that is the accepted number in the industry. Of course if you go buy the amount of examples sellers try to sell here there are thousands lol. JMO


(19 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jun 30, 2005 03:11 AM
bump




My Guestbook An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest.

(20 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jul 1, 2005 11:35 AM
Apologies to all who have read this I need to correct myself on the reporting of the 52 Mantle Sales those are wrong please disregard them and I will correct them as soon as I compile the correct data.


(21 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jul 3, 2005 04:49 PM
Great post!

:)
DW



DW

(22 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jul 3, 2005 05:37 PM
Ok guys and gals~

You have pointed out specific cards to look out for and rightfully so!

Now on a different note, I am looking into purchasing some lots of older vintage cards. T206, '33 and '34 Goudey, and '50's Topps to be specific. Problem is I am so hesitant to bid on anything because unless it is graded, you just never know, right? Or is their certain things to look for (other than sellers FB) that would lead you to believe the cards are genuine? Are these types of items that I should only bid on if the seller states a specific return policy?

Thoughts and comments appreciated~
(23 of 154)
Vintage Sports Card Collecting 101 + List of Commonly Forged Cards
Jul 3, 2005 07:19 PM
Pac, Auctions with "disclaimers". ie "Not sure if it's real, not sure if it's a reprint"...etc. Also make sure there is a reasonable return policy. By reasonable I mean more than a couple of weeks. That way if you decide to get it graded yourself, you have time. In case you find out from the grading company that it's a fake. Also, go to card shows. Talk to dealers. Get some "hands on" experience of these cards. Eventially, you'll get an "eye" for vintage. Good Luck! Dave
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