Adrienne, I would have loved her life too, but I was stupid & got married when I was 21 to a guy who could not keep his pants zipped. That lasted till I was 26 or so, and I had about 4 years of not quite as much fun as she's having. I just wish I hadn't wasted those first 5 years .

My Mom's parents only had a handful of "valuables" but they had a lifetime of sentimental things. My Mom got in some nasty snits with her 5 siblings about Grandma's original artwork and who was to get what framed water colors and pastels.

Fast forward 25 years from Grandma's death to Mom's. When I went through Mom's stuff, I found that she had a big box of her Mom's stuff and there were three or four dozen pieces of art, all  done on paper, and all decomposing from being stored in a wet basement. Mom had all that stuff for years and never knew it existed. I still can't believe the fights over the other stuff, and the one pic that Mom kept was labeled on the back in Grandma's writing that it was to be given to my Aunt. Sheesh.

I took this whole pile of stuff over to my Uncle's house and showed it to all 5 of her siblings, and all of their kids, and after all that earlier fighting, nobody wanted any of it. Sheesh.

I gotta get busy, LOL! Lots of stuff to list!

Is the morale improving around here yet?

Cross post - Bunn, I will send you the appraisals when I either find the scans or rescan. I think they are not on this computer.

Is the morale improving around here yet?

The thing that really worries me about your sis, Vic, is how sick will she have to get before anything is done about her situation? Will she have to go into kidney failure before she gets dialysis? Will she have to pass out in the back of the van before that happens?

Is there no kind of free medical clinic up there anywhere for people who have no insurance? Grady Hospital here has at least one clinic in the community.It's really common sense that if there were more centers for urgent care there would be less strain on the more high-dollar resources like the ER departments, never mind that people would take care of their needs before it became a matter of life & death.

I think this scheme of Obamacare to get everyone onto "health insurance" is a huge load of manure. Insurance was designed for emergencies, not for day to day operations. If car insurance worked this way, your oil changes and tire rotations would be covered, and you'd get a new set of premium brand name tires every 50K miles. There is so much bloat in the system now, and it's getting worse. Every doc out there has to hire a couple of well paid admins to deal with all the paperwork that has to be submitted to all the various companies and all the varying rates for reimbursment for various procedures that are permitted only every so often, and then follow up on what's not been paid. This is on top of the receptionist who books appointments. If you can get one. Nothing like having the flu and your doc can see you in three weeks. That's why I do not have a regular doc. When I'm sick I need one today.

Is the morale improving around here yet?

Greetings and Good Day Dear PLU residents

We interrupt today's programming for this breaking news report in internet commerce---for anyone who might give a hoot about the case of the Federal Trade Commission anti-trust allegations against Google. 

They were deemed naughty, in part--The "fat lady has sung" and arrived at a compromise on the charges levied, in the judicial rulings, and Google will be required to file reports, proving they are complying with the courts directive.

http://www.zdnet.com/google-must-change-search-business-practices-after-ftc-decision-7000009350/?s_cid=e589

Don't ask yourself what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. ~ Harold Whitman

~~~Beautiful imagery MNpoet and so wholly romantic...

...the pearls you share so freely with us here on PLU

~~~it sounds pretty close to 'right'

right here and now

I think Aries is a male energy?

I had never before thought about sex with no penis if it is just a spirit body?

Why have I never thought that before?

I thought I had thought of it all

...oh and diamonds are for Aries, guys.

Aries over the age of 40 with a clearly defined intent.

(I don't think flesh sex organs matter in this rule?)

~~~or at least that's what *I*'ve always been told?

~~~רוח

Excellent point about the diamonds, Grace. Jody does like looking at the ones I wear. Burns, you still have my address, right?

See my page for frequently used eBay discussion board acronyms.

toneee wrote:

.

 

Just a quick comment & run for Delta --- didn't read the details about the *sperm donor* issues --- all that caught my eye was your disgust at the State going after him for support

 

Sperm has one purpose --- it impregnates an egg to make a baby --- and both parties (however each chose to participate) are equally responsible for the life they created

 

Don't want the responsibility --- then *keep it in your pants*

 

Nuff said ...

 

.

To go all biblical on you Toneee: "Cast not not your seed upon the ground*or in a cup*"...

Some people are clinging hideously to their idiocy!

tempestgrace wrote:

toneee wrote:

.

 

Just a quick comment & run for Delta --- didn't read the details about the *sperm donor* issues --- all that caught my eye was your disgust at the State going after him for support

 

Sperm has one purpose --- it impregnates an egg to make a baby --- and both parties (however each chose to participate) are equally responsible for the life they created

 

Don't want the responsibility --- then *keep it in your pants*

 

Nuff said ...

 

.

 

Don't want the responsibility --- then *keep it in your pants*

 

~~~~or keep it safely in a BANK in case there comes a time or egg worthy of such an awesome responsibility and commitment.

 

 

Also, realize that once a woman spits it out, pulls it from her hair, or collects it in a condom that it might be considered to be "hers" and she might decide to bank it and keep it safe herself for later use?

 

...maybe someday she will even be able to sell her fine collection on eBay?

 

I did notice, in that article that Have2 originally posted, that in the section regarding, how rulings in previous cases, were inconsistent, that there was indeed one case, of a woman becoming pregnant from artificial insemination something like a year post "coitus" activity.  The couple were divorced at the time of conception. And the New York court ruled he had to pay child support for the twins regardless. 

But again...in the spirit of offering an alternative viewpoint as to ethical business practices..  In that case, that man had indeed given CONSENT to bank his sperm, for use by his wife.   So, I suppose it was his lack of due diligence of "withdrawing" his previous "asset" deposits from their "marital" account, upon their divorce, that was his downfall?

Repository's for eggs and sperm already exist.  And judging by the anonymity of donors, these "banks" have attempted to maintain, since their inception, it is fair to say, they had enough knowledge of the law, to predict, that this practice had the potential to be a legal slippery slope.  As is now playing out, in our judicial system.  

I agree with Toneee, in that "consensual" is a two-way street, that comes with responsibility.  The idea you are proposing, as "investment potential"  sounds like exploitation to me.  A step backward in societal evolution. 

Since you mentioned Bill Clinton, I thought I would share this excerpt from Hillary's book, "It Takes A Village"  Hillary Clinton, as you may know, is a staunch proponent of child advocacy.  (bold my own emphasis)

The Cairo Document, drafted at the International Conference on Population and Development in 1994, reaffirms that "in no case should abortion be promoted as a method of family planning." And it recognizes "the basic right of all couples and individuals to decide freely and responsibly the number, spacing, and timing of their children and to have the information and means to do so." Women & MEN should have the right to make this most intimate of all decisions free of discrimination or coercion.

Neither women or men, should be reduced to "breeding stock" in society. 

Don't ask yourself what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. ~ Harold Whitman

tempestgrace wrote:

At 'Outside the Box' *we* like to think 'OtB' 

.

Hmmmmmm --- wasn't him being *outside the box* what started the mess in the first place ???

.

"Le client n'a jamais tort" - César Ritz

To *me* it is definitely a slippery and interesting legal slope, MNwise.

No LESS difficult than the other issues of reproduction that currently divide 'hearts and minds'.  Though I do notice that women seem to have stronger opinions on the 'Choice/Life' issue in general?

I am really excited about the possibility of engaging men and boys more deeply in this important discussion.  So many of the smartest men (in *my* experience) consider this to be a 'silly monkey/red herring/manipulatively emotional' tool for 'bargaining'.  At least in their political view if not in their personal opinion.

*I* certainly hate thinking about any child as "exploitative' as you write.  Though without doubt there are many cases of child custody and pregnancies that do seem to have such an exploitation factor at some level.

...and yes surely there ARE many existing businesses and choices for sperm banking and reproduction.  Obviously a viable new business would hope to provide good service to any additional customers that are not already being served.  This is how business works, no? If I could cook I would not worry that there were already restaurants?

Perhaps 'Outside the Box' can offer better service, or locations?  Or as you mentioned before that only the wealthy seem to have access to such cutting edge reproductive help?

I was wondering if it would be feasible to allow someone to bank at no upfront cost and only pay for withdrawals?

This is what has me thinking about 'stock / futures' and third party investors.

At the CORE I have three hopes.

1) I would like to be a small part of ending abortion

*I* personally think abortion is murder.  My personal views are very extreme and *my* personal choice since the age of 8 or so (when I first began thinking about the subject) are that if *I* were going to be condemned to hell for committing murder *I* would choose murder-suicide.  I was dead serious.  Any man who has had sexual contact with me knows this is *my* position and the conversation could almost be considered foreplay.  Though more often than not the mood was ruined.

*I* 100% was NOT going to be a mother. I sometimes can't believe I survived and did not end up having to commit suicide.  I thought about every detail and knew I would have to act immediately.  Within hours so that I would keep my courage and commitment.

(Unless God, Himself, sent an Angel like he did to Mary and there was no mortal father or sperm.  I would NEVER of course deny God)

2) I do NOT think 'the village' should be responsible for raising the children of others.  Though I know you, MNlove, believe differently, *I* believe it is wrong if not criminal to have children you cannot afford to care for and that it is NOT 'society as a whole' who is responsible for your children.  

3) I would like to move the fulcrum of the discussion to a time and place as Burns wrote 'BEFORE an egg and sperm set up housekeeping'.  I find it barbaric that we are discussing living fetuses when there is no need.  I believe we can be SMARTER in 2013 than we have been up to this point.  I believe Sperm Banks on every corner could possibly assist in the changing of this paradigm.

Also MissMN I would like to comment and thank you again for your earlier thoughts (a few posts ago) which you've expressed before but that *I* find particularly insightful.

You wrote about how the same people who want to make abortion illegal also seem to be the people do not want to care for and give money to the mothers of the children who are born and truly are in need of advocacy.  It is such a poignant insight.  I wish I could find both of your examples and the words you used.  They were brilliant and heart-wrenching. (like yu)

I recently saw a documentary about the famine in Russia and these Americans who went to try and aid the hundreds of thousands who were dying.  At one point in the documentary they were talking about how the people had become brain dead from communism and couldn't even help themselves because they had become so used to government handouts.  They also blamed the fact that many were Catholic and so just thought that God was punishing them.  The point being that they were literally, as a group, doing nothing to help themselves.  Their instincts for survival were removed in a way that could not occur in any other animals... only a human could think themselves in to such despondency/dependency.

While I was pondering that thought they next talked about how the starving were turning to cannibalism.  They said newborn babies were the first choice as food both out of kindness to spare the babies suffering and starving to death but also to feed other children.

I was stunned as the women said that only a mother would do what needed to be done to feed her children.  Including having children in order to provide meat for her existing children.

It really blew my mind.

I've been stuck in this sickest of riddles for over a week.

It's amazing how we twist and turn the ideas of 'motherhood' to suit us.

...and there is no denying that the most horrific thing on the planet is the death of children.  There is no stronger motivator that has ever been known or used. So when we find ourselves confronted with the death of innocent children  and with such ideas and imagery we should be VERY careful about who might be using such a tool to blind us to any real intent.

Just wanted to share that with you MissMNquest~~~~

(as *I* desperately need somewhere to share and let go of the seed of such thought)

...whew ... I think THAT is quite enough posting for a while, huh?

~~~~apologies to the PeacefulPeople for any disturbing thoughts arising from this post.

~~~~~but like the tides *I* feel the pull of the MN and cannot leave her words unanswered for too long~~~

~~~רוח

HA HA HA HA HA

damyou spell check!

I don't know how many of y'all are undercoating your homes!

LL

...but I bet a few of you are UN-decorating your house from the Christmas decorations and lights!

LL

sheesh!

...and I still can't seem to judge the size of the pictures.

It's always a surprise to see what will happen when I hit "post"!

~~~רוח

And after I lost this post twice, I forgot my original comment was that it got Inside the Box somehow or other

Is the morale improving around here yet?