Payment Dispute Help & Appeal

[erikscardsandgames]

Someone please help me understand how this payment dispute was ruled against me?

A buyer bought a $10 trading card. I shipped using the EBay Standard Envelope shipping for trading cards, which has issues with the tracking updating correctly sometimes. Cards get delivered without the tracking updating to the final destination, which is frustrating. But most buyers are honest so it's not a big deal, and most orders are insured up to $20.

This card was out for delivery in the correct zip code over a month ago, but never arrived according to the tracking. This happens dozens of times a month with our orders, but the cards are always delivered, the tracking just is screwed up and is done through Ebay, so it's not under anything I can control. But the buyer filed a payment dispute with their credit card company, not EBay, even though the credit card matches the buyers name and address.

Somehow the dispute was ruled in favor of the buyer because the item isn't delivered, and I can't file an insurance claim because the buyer didn't file their missing item claim through Ebay.

Even if the buyer is somehow being completely honest, how am I at fault at all? EBays tracking, Ebays poor verification allowing a stolen credit card (allegedly) or the buyers dishonesty ... and somehow its my fault despite shipping the card correctly and quickly?

And to top things off, filing an appeal is a complete mess. I think I have to chat with an agent to do it, which I will, but that needs some serious updating on the site too.

Because it's only $10 it's not a huge deal but it's just so frustrating and demoralizing when a buyer can be so blatant about their lies and still get away with it because of a faulty EBay tracking system and review policy.

[robbie31415]

More like bad sellers who think buyers shouldn't be reimbursed when they don't get their purchase.

Sorry doesn't work that way. Buyers are entitled to full refund. This is how it is on every marketplace.

You can fight for an insurance claim, but this should have no impact on the buyer.

If you are unhappy with marketplace rules you are free to make your own website. But guess what If they file a chargeback there you will still lose if you don't have delivered tracking.

[kensgiftshop]

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@legacycoins wrote:

Also it CLEARLY states in the listing what shipping service is used, also it is one that buyers like because it saves them money, clearly stated shipping service, all buyers need to read, not our fault ebay protects scammers 

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Yes, buyers like it because it's cheaper.

But, it's your choice to offer the cheap service and you get what you pay for.

Myself, as a buyer and seller, I'd rather spend a little more and get more reliable shipping/tracking.

[kensgiftshop]

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@legacycoins wrote:

We do not control the post office, once the item is in the POST OFFICE hands, out of seller control, what do you want me to drive it to the buyer?! 

This is why people leave ebay for other platforms with better policies 

Stop defending the billion dollar company that does not care if you burn or not 

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No, you don't control the PO, but you hire them to deliver the package and you're responsible for that package until it is delivered to the buyer.

[jerseyboymusic]

Just a question on a general observation (since I don't do trading cards)... WHY use this ESE thing if it causes so many headaches? Why not use USPS Ground Advantage and bill the buyer for actual shipping?

[12345jamesstamps]

A dispute with a credit card bank where probably buyer is saying they do not recognize the purchase. You won't win with the bank...and appealing with the bank might charge you $20.

Just file with eBay for a refund which I think eBay does with eBay standard envelope...does take a while to get refunded by eBay though.

[wastingtime101]

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@erikscardsandgames wrote:

The tracking is done through EBay. It's not a USPS tracking system or any other company. The trading card shipping is created specifically by Ebay

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You are mistaken @erikscardsandgames . ESE is metered mail, a service that is provided by USPS. It does not receive traditional tracking scans and the clerk at the PO counter cannot scan it. The envelope is scanned by USPS sorting machinery at distribution centers along the way.

If you find the tracking on eBay to be lacking, you can track the ESUS number on this site:
https://parcelsapp.com/en

If your item was stuck at "out for delivery" then you should not have tried to fight the dispute. You need that delivered scan to win a non-receipt claim on eBay, and to win a non-receipt claim that comes through as a payment dispute.

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@erikscardsandgames wrote:

Agreed, I didn't send a refund, I disputed it last month with the credit card company. I just lost the ruling today, so EBay just took the money from my account. I had no control over it whatsoever.

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You should not have fought the dispute. You should have agreed to pay out then turned around to file the PIP insurance claim.

At this point, you can sill file the insurance claim, however that will only cover the cost of the card. It will not cover the $20 dispute fee that will be charged because you fought and lost the dispute.

[erikscardsandgames]

These kinds of comments are so worthless.

I agree in general with your points, but I specifically explained why my situation was so frustrating.

The buyer didn't send a message to me on EBay. The package was marked as out for delivery on Feb 22, and on Feb 28 I got a notification that they had filed a dispute with their credit card company and not recognizing the payment. I sent a message to the buyer asking what the issue was and if I could do anything to make the process easier on EBay, instead of having to go through their Credit Card company. I got no response.

At this point, the tracking still showed the item as out for delivery. I figured since the credit card company could match the address they had on file to the address in which I sent the card, it would be an easy decision. But because the tracking never correctly updated, the credit card company sided with the buyer, as you would expect. My issue, again, is that EBay claims to have seller protections in place. What is the point of those seller protections, if in this situation it's not covered at all?

And if I had simply refunded the buyer, and then the tracking updated two or three days later to delivered, my insurance claim would be denied as well. It's just an incredibly long and frustrating process.

[erikscardsandgames]

When I sell a card for $1.99, I can't pay $4.14 for shipping. I appreciate the business lesson though.

[erikscardsandgames]

I explained in each of my posts that it doesn't cause headaches in general. Insurance generally works great. My question was specific because the buyer didn't go through EBay, but rather directly to their credit card company. This screws up the insurance claims and has just been a mess. But if the buyer files the claim through EBay, the insurance works great, so the tracking isn't a huge issue.

I like to sell both expensive and cheap cards because a lot of buyers enjoy buying cheap cards to collect. If I sell a card for $1.99, I can't afford to use the Ground Advantage shipping because it's over $4. So the ESE is the only option.

Again, though, it's a good service. This result just isn't logical in my opinion, even if it's in the policy.

[erikscardsandgames]

The post office is no help with the EBay tracking, was my main point. It was in response to someone saying they would contact USPS. But thank you for the corrections.

I also appreciate the detailed insurance explanations, but my issue was if the item showed up as delivered after I sent the refund, I still wouldn't have gotten the insurance claim, and sometimes the tracking does update days later.

Again, it's $10, it's fine. But the entire process has been a complete disaster. Every company involved is spending more than $10 in administrative work. But hey, at least someone got a free card out of it.

I'm still going back and forth on the insurance claim, but I will update everyone when my claim gets approved or denied. I appreciate all the help.

[jerseyboymusic]

@erikscardsandgames just wondering... that's all... I read about so many complaints about the ESE, just was curious

[erikscardsandgames]

@sin-n-dexYou were right, they approved the claim after a little back and forth explaining the situation.

Thanks so much!

[farmalljr]

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@goodnu9 wrote:

I look at it this way, once the PO is in possession of the envelope and accepted with date received, it is out of my hands. I am not responsible after that and the buyer needs to deal with the PO.  I do not issue refunds when this happens.

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That's hilarious. The law says you ARE responsible, 100%. eBay says you ARE responsible, 100%. How you "feel" about it makes zero difference. If a buyer opens a case, you WILL be refunding. and they WILL take the money from your funds/accounts. 

If they do that enough, you won't have to worry about thinking you are not responsible, they will just ban you for good. No more problems with refunds then, huh?

[farmalljr]

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@erikscardsandgames wrote:

When I sell a card for $1.99, I can't pay $4.14 for shipping. I appreciate the business lesson though.

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Then you can't afford to sell things for 1.99 then. If you are still willing to do it despite that fact, then what are your complaining about? You keep taking the risks. 

Will this happen again? Probably. 

[farmalljr]

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@erikscardsandgames wrote:

I explained in each of my posts that it doesn't cause headaches in general. Insurance generally works great. My question was specific because the buyer didn't go through EBay, but rather directly to their credit card company. This screws up the insurance claims and has just been a mess. But if the buyer files the claim through EBay, the insurance works great, so the tracking isn't a huge issue.

I like to sell both expensive and cheap cards because a lot of buyers enjoy buying cheap cards to collect. If I sell a card for $1.99, I can't afford to use the Ground Advantage shipping because it's over $4. So the ESE is the only option.

Again, though, it's a good service. This result just isn't logical in my opinion, even if it's in the policy.

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Buyers are NOT requited to file a case with eBay. No one is. They can go directly to the CC company if they want to. Your complaint is a moot point. Setting yourself up in this manner of selling, will sometimes get you this result. It may happen more or less in the future.