Is it allowed to engrave famous names on worthless personal objects and sell them as memorabilia?

[odgi]

There is a seller who laser engraves old items with the names of famous people like hockey or football players, WWI and WWII officers and rockstars, and sometimes brandnames like "Zeiss" on cheap binoculars, and then put them up for auction.  The seller has many accounts, and it he changes his usernames often, which is suspicious.

He can take an old broken pocket watch, laser engrave the back and sell it as "Ludwig Hofmeister PLAYER 1905 GERMAN Bayern Munich FOOTBALL CLUB POCKET WATCH"

A cheap old straight razor laser engraved becomes: "GERMAN WW2 LUFTWAFFE Heinkel He 162 Fighter aircraft WALTER GESAU STRAIGHT RAZOR IN BOX"

An old flask gets engraved and becomes: "National football League 1922 Rock island Jimmy Conzelman player/coach flask"

An old alarm clock gets water decals and laser engravings and becomes: "German WW2 Lehrgeschwader 2 Luftwaffe unit wind up brass clock Herbert Ihlefeld"

How about this one? "German WW2 world war two EVA BRAUN Leader wife Ladies silver ring Gift" On that he has laser engraved "Eva Braun - Viel Glück zum Geburtstag!" (Eva Braun - Happy Birthday!).

A bakelite box with a shaving brush became: "1923 Beer Hall Putsch Erich Ludendorff Shaving Set in box Gift as a keepsake"

What could be the reason to laser engrave such items if it wasn't to fool people to believe that the personal items belonged to these famous people? Worthless flea market stuff become sports, war memorabilia. Does eBay really allow this, or is it just "buyers beware"?

[annadryl]

If the seller is trying to pass off items as belonging to or relating to people or events when they were not, then it's totally fraud.

[alcoforever]

It may be fraud but it is also buyer beware.

[fashunu4eeuh]

Of course eBay does not allow counterfeit items. However, the guy may not be violating any rules. You have suspicions but any proof?

[guangxi_hone]

He might be asked to stop  profiting in such a way and be sued by persons or descendants.

[odgi]

His descriptions of the objects are pretty much the same as the titles, as little as possible. I can't see other reasons for laser engraving the name of a famous person inside an old used wallet, for example, than make people think that it has some connection with that person. Or take a random cheap ring and laser engrave it with a rockstar's name and place and date of a concert.

One would think that when he laser engraves "HASSELBLAD" on a thin piece of metal and glues it on a cheap Soviet camera, or paint over the original brand name on a pair of binoculars and engraves "ZEISS" (an expensive brand) plus a german officer's name on them, would be fraud, even though it was clumsily done.

A couple of days ago he sold a Soviet made camera with fake "Leica" and "Luftwaffe" engravings as "German WW2 Luftwaffe chrome film camera, working world war two leather case".

It's probably allowed by eBay, and he has 100% positive feedback on most of his accounts. It still annoys me.

[a_c_green · Accepted solution]

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@odgi wrote:

What could be the reason to laser engrave such items if it wasn't to fool people to believe that the personal items belonged to these famous people? Worthless flea market stuff become sports, war memorabilia. Does eBay really allow this, or is it just "buyers beware"?

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It's Buyer Beware. eBay doesn't have the time, and they definitely don't have the personnel (or the expertise) to go inspecting every listing. On the other hand, a buyer can return an item on the mildest suspicion of it being a counterfeit if they feel like it; that's not a really high bar to meet.

I looked at some of the listings you described, and the engraving is preposterous. A 100-year old item isn't going to have elaborate engraved artwork and perfect lettering (especially serif fonts, stylized script or elongated type) done with a technology that wouldn't exist for the better part of a century to come, not to mention showing the same basic typeface and appearance as that seen on other, completely-unrelated objects sold by the same seller. (I also noticed a listing for a supposed 1919 Indianapolis 500 signet ring in which "Indianapolis" appears to be misspelled as "Iadianopolis" instead. On a pocket watch with the name "Grudziński" printed on the face, he seems to have had a problem programming the accented "ń" in the right point size to match the other type, and ended up with something resembling "Grudziński" instead.)

On the plus side, I seriously doubt that many collectors familiar with a particular vintage item he's listed would really be taken in by it. His market would be the clueless newbie, and while his feedback does show such sales, I don't think many would stand up to future scrutiny too well. He may have had to refund more than you know.

[7198dave]

why does this matter to you?

[coolections]

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@7198dave wrote:

why does this matter to you?

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@7198dave 

My guess is the OP is an ethical person and just doesn't like seeing scamming sellers list such things on Ebay as it brings down the Ebay brand name. Maybe the OP collects the "real stuff" and hates to see that category flooded with "fake" stuff ? Maybe because he would like to see that person go to jail for forgery ? Lots of good reasons why people do not like seeing scammers selling on Ebay.

[odgi]

@coolections @7198dave I stumbled upon this seller for the first time last year when I was looking around for classic camera gear and saw his crude "rebranding" of cheap cameras in to expensive brands. It was so obvious that I was sure that reporting them would take the auctions down, but eBay did nothing. I looked at the other items he had for sale, and it was obvious that he tried to make cheap stuff into objects relating to famous people to increase their "value".  I certainly don't like that and that people get scammed on eBay.  It's sad, and it's also sad that eBay makes money by this, a site that otherwise is a good place for buying and selling.

As a collector I have enough knowledge to not fall for certain scams, but I also buy things that I don't know much about and could fall victim for fakes and other types of scams, and so could you. The less forgeries and frauds on eBay the better for us all.

[7198dave]

My guess is the OP is an ethical person and just doesn't like seeing scamming sellers list such things on Ebay as it brings down the Ebay brand name. Maybe the OP collects the "real stuff" and hates to see that category flooded with "fake" stuff ? Maybe because he would like to see that person go to jail for forgery ? Lots of good reasons why people do not like seeing scammers selling on Ebay.

I think the OP can speak for themselves.   

[ed8108]

Hope that buyers are not being influenced not to buy

on eBay from other sellers.

[flapperfox1921]

Worth is in the eye of the beholder, and it looks like he is catering to the fantasy history clientele.  People buy those things for role playing.

[coolections]

@7198dave 

No need to, the OP already said it is unethical. Maybe you should not have to ask ?

[1tuna]

..............general repsonse.............

the people that do this are real slimeballs,its as simple as that.I have seen many engraved watches and heard ebay users boast about ripping people off with WW2 junk from the Germans

my favorites are the jokers in Bulgaria who have to add a mori skull to everything they own

ebay users have actually built a hall of shame for some former users who were blatant opportunists when it came to alarm clocks with fake black stuff on them.its very easy to turn a worthless old clock inot anything you want it to be with a color printer and a pair of scissor and some glue