ReUnderstanding the partial refund scam....

[kennys-kollectibles]

I've sold here for 2 decades so I have seen all the scams. 

Lately, it popped into my head a nuance about the partial refund scam.  

I used to just believe the usual, "oh buyers just never read the descriptions", but

now I have a better idea on the main loophole in this scam.  

Notice when someone files for a INAD for a refund or partial refund, that ebay

will never care if the description matches the item or not.  

So, since that is true, it doesn't matter what you write in your description. 

It dawned on me that if someone wants something, but isn't picky about the condition

they can always force a partial refund and then in the end get the better deal they wanted. 

A seller can write in the description all the flaws an item has such as,

"it's worn and has lots of wear and scratches".....and then the buyer can file a claim stating that,  

"it's worn and has lots of wear and scratches".  You see the item was as described, but 

that doesn't matter to ebay they will not back the seller on these scenerios.  

My feeling is,  many of these buyers ARE reading the ads and know this loophole and 

purposely buy the item knowing they can negociate a nice partial refund because as 

most of you know sellers don't want to deal with the hassles of costly returns.  

I only bring this up because  this has happened twice to me this week.  

Do buyers just expect everything they order to be mint?  

This is why I miss the old "as-is".  Buyers knew up front the item was as-is and they could

make the descision to buy or not.  There really shouldn't be any kind of ebay buyer guarantees 

on 60 year old used items.    That's just common sense.  Bidders now are not subjected to

honor their bids based on the current way returns are handled.  

Whenever there is a case of, the seller does everything right and correct, but still is open to scams, 

then that is a red flag that the system is flawed and should be corrected.  

I am very carefull writing my ads and I try my best to list every flaw I see, so when I get

INAD's filed on me, it's bothersome because I know the item is exactly as I described. 

So, did my buyer not read the ad??? or did my buyer READ the ad, and just wanted 

a better deal for $20 off???     What do you think?

[luckythewinner]

Notice when someone files for a INAD for a refund or partial refund, that ebay will never care if the description matches the item or not.

This is because eBay cannot possibly tell whether the item matches the description or not, because eBay is not holding the item.

It dawned on me that if someone wants something, but isn't picky about the condition they can always force a partial refund and then in the end get the better deal they wanted.

They can force a full refund and keep the item if they are willing to commit fraud.

This is why I miss the old "as-is". Buyers knew up front the item was as-is and they could

make the decision to buy or not.

eBay has had a Money Back Guarantee for buyers since 2008. That is because in those old "as-is" days that you miss so much, sellers were ripping off buyers left and right by taking money orders and personal checks and not shipping items. And if you dared to leave a negative, you got negged right back. No thanks!

[kennys-kollectibles]

Hi, well, not shipping the items and taking the money is not what this topic was about. 

and that kind of  thievery has nothing to do with INAD.   That is just plain theft.   

And that is sellers doing the scam....this topic is about the buyers doing the scam.  

[southern*sweet*tea]

Don't do partial refunds.

Either refund in full, write it off and move on or require a return for refund.  Make the buyer do some work.  The majority of partial refund opportunists will move on if you require a return, and if you do go ahead and accept the return they won't send anything at all back and the return will close out in your favor.

The ones that do send something else back are actual scammers.

I call them opportunists because they're people looking for a post-sale discount.  Most of them are just cheap and not actual scammers.  They figure "oh well, I tried" and just keep the item at the price they paid.

[iart]

This comment of yours is what bothers me: "the item is exactly as I described."

Condition is a value judgement and buyers will often see it different than sellers. We've been selling for 25 years (ugg) and have great feedback, rarely get a return or a complaint, and we'd never make a statement like that.  Like all sellers, we make mistakes and we expect to pay for those mistakes.

[gamersbaystore]

I get your frustrations, but its against ebay's policies to beg for partial refunds, or ask for a refund of any kind without returning the item first. I am not shy in putting buyers who do this in their place, then promptly reporting them for it as well.

Likewise, you'd be right that sellers have zero defense when it comes to INADS. ebay doesn't care who's right or wrong, they will simply side with the buyer anytime they claim the item was not as described. The best thing to do in such situations is to accept a return and report the buyer for lying about the reason for their return.

What's really unfair is the fact ebay automatically punishes the seller when a buyer claims an item is not as described. Get enough of those INADS an ebay will starting charging you inflated fees and put all kinds of ridiculous restrictions on your account, despite the fact the buyers lied about the reasons for their returns.

ebay literally punishes sellers based on the buyers lying opinions, rather than any factual evidence of any kind. ebay is blatantly committing theft and getting away with it.

Its going to take lawmakers to reign in on ebay before anything will ever change.

[12345jamesstamps]

Buyers are purchasing on cellphones now as well.

A description won't even show up unless to scroll down on item and click on the description...the title has to say it all.

I don't do partial refunds...I just assume to refund the item and block the buyer.

Do I want to pay for return shipping?...Not really. There are always some buyers who will nickel and dime a seller for a partial refund.

[stuff4divas]

@kennys-kollectibles 

for ethical buyers, the description DOES matter, for scam buyers, the description does not matter.

scammers can say any lie they want to further their scam and the 'system' does not discourage this type of behavior.

[evry1nositswindy]

This just happened to me!  I had a buyer claim the book wasn't as described because I didn't say there were b/w illustrations inside and they wanted the color edition.  My description literally said b/w illustrations with 2 clear pictures of them!  Of course I had to pay to get it back (still not here yet but the buyer has their money).  When it is this blatant, why isn't the return system more interactive?  I couldn't even ask for more time because there is not place to say the item had not yet been delivered back to me. 

No partial refunds for me.  Return for refund!

[kennys-kollectibles]

Hi,  it's funny becuase everytime someone responds to the statement, 

why doesn't ebay look for evidence when processing INAD's, they say

as someone stated earlier, "ebay doesn't have the item in thier hands

so they always side with the buyer"......Well then, as you state, ebay punishes

sellers based on what the buyer says rather than any factual evidence of any kind. 

Man, if that isn't a double standard what is?

[kennys-kollectibles]

Hi,  ok, let me clearify that statement.  

I meant it as in the context of ....I am an honest seller and I try like crazy to

describe all my items very accurately.....

Yes, I am human and I do make mistakes and I gladly will refund for that scenerio. 

In the context I was using was, I point out every flaw and crack and chip in the item, 

and I still get a INAD.....So, in that case, yes I did describe it exactly as it is, but 

the person either didn't read the condition, or is just trying a scam.  

Fyi, I have had multiple feedbacks where satisfied buyers have said my items

were better in person than what I described.  

[ittybitnot]

Condition is a value judgement and buyers will often see it different than sellers.

@iart

I would agree with you when the "condition" is not specific.  Phrases like "good used condition", "nice condition with respect to age", "great vintage condition" or even "see pics for condition as they are part of the description" are all nonsense, and indeed a value judgement.   I do not purchase from these listings, in general even if could ultimately get the lot for "free".   I have been here for a long time.  I know how to do that, and indeed eBay will help me.  

However,  when a seller takes the time to describe and picture a small defect, and the buyer claims SNAD for the tiny rim chip mentioned three times and shown in four pictures, I call foul.  

eBay used to be in judgement of such cases and would dismiss a claim if a buyer was objecting to a feature that was described and shown. It obviously was a drain on eBay's  monetary resources,  so now they don't. The buyer is always right even if they are not, and sellers pay the price.

Back in the day when eBay started these new procedure staff proclaimed this would never result in the issues we see today.  They were still spouting the "we believe people are basically good" mantra.  Time after time the administrative personnel said there was barely a chance for false snad so sellers  didn't have to worry about it at all.   When questioned as to why "if the chances are sooooo smalllll, eBay doesn't step up and take care of it for their sellers?".    Today, in my opinion,  what we have is much worse.  

Historically speaking, eBay sellers would just go along with whatever the managed marketplace dished out. Now there are just too many alternatives, and sellers are not so desperate to remain in an adversarial relationship. It shows.